First officer training program?

Treblesum81 said:
Any chance this works the other way too? I've heard rumors about pilot shortages in places like Hungary and some of the nicer 'stans where they hire people to send to America to learn to fly, but more often than not, a rumor is just that...
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I can't speak for any of the stans, but Hungary is part of the EU. There is no shortage of European pilots in Hungary. It is very hard for a US citizen to find work in Europe. Most (but not all) airlines here are asking for European citizenship, so legal residents like myself have less opportunities. Couple this with the fact that many airlines require a local language in addition to English. I knew an American flying in Kazahkstan, but he had A LOT of hours on the challenger 604, and he was telling me that he was trying to get out of Kazahkstan.

Edit: State airline of Hungary Malev went bankrupt early this year. Wizzair was hiring quite a few pilots but they required buying a type rating and there was no shortage of applicants. Definitely no shortage in Hungary :)
 
Dphoenix said:
Move. I hate it here in Phoenix, but it's where the job was.... Can't wait to go home, but I need my time. If you're not willing to move for aviation, it's going to be pretty hard to get jobs.
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If I moved I would have to give up my lucrative day job.....
 
Zondaracer said:
I can't speak for any of the stans, but Hungary is part of the EU. There is no shortage of European pilots in Hungary. It is very hard for a US citizen to find work in Europe. Most (but not all) airlines here are asking for European citizenship, so legal residents like myself have less opportunities. Couple this with the fact that many airlines require a local language in addition to English. I knew an American flying in Kazahkstan, but he had A LOT of hours on the challenger 604, and he was telling me that he was trying to get out of Kazahkstan.

Edit: State airline of Hungary Malev went bankrupt early this year. Wizzair was hiring quite a few pilots but they required buying a type rating and there was no shortage of applicants. Definitely no shortage in Hungary :)
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As I figured... rumors are just that
 
Stone Cold said:
I've been to a few 'Stans...where are the "nicer" ones? ;) And to answer the question, to my knowledge, the places that might entertain it eventually, you probably don't want to work there either for QOL, Pay, equipment, or all 3 combined reasons...

I don't want to rain on your parade, but there really is no real easy way to do aviation. In the past few years, people were spoiled with the wet Commercial hiring, and that just will not happen again. That is a good thing.

So, now you have to figure out a way to get jobs with all the other wet Commercials. What differentiates you from all the other aviation people finishing their tickets with less than 500TT, or even less than 1200, or 1500 with the airlines soon? Nothing. Either you know somebody, which it doesn't sound like you do, or you find whatever is available. Guess what that is?

How much do you really want the job? That will be the test for the remainder of your career. Trust me. It has been said many times...this is a marathon, not a sprint. Enjoy the ride up, otherwise you will probably be disappointed.

With that, I'm done with this discussion. Y'all enjoy talking in circles...
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You may be checking out of the conversation, but I think you're missing a key point here: If the most sure fire way is to instruct for some amount of time, and I'm trying to avoid that, then I'm actually choosing a harder path. Trying to find a viable way around instructing is going to be a difficult task, since opportunities are limited and according to people like you, the market is flooded. I have to say that I find it interesting that at this point I'm receiving animosity not just for bringing up PFT in the first place, but for wanting to try a different route at all, as if I'm automatically a bad person and a bad pilot just because I don't want to instruct...
 
jhugz said:
bad person or pilot...no

lazy...yes
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I don't think it is laziness at all.

Instructing is way easier than say, the glider towing I do. And it is a perspective that is hard to appreciate until you do it (teaching). The parts you think are hard aren't really, but the other things that challenge you will teach you a lot about yourself.

Not wanting to instruct is fine. I instruct, but not much. But get a CFI cert either way so you at least have that option. I'll leave this alone on that note, and to the OP - best of luck with whatever you decide.
 
People need to get their definitions correct. These pay to play programs in the US are not PFJ/PFT.

The last true PFJ was Gulfstream. PFT is a corporate/charter thing for the most part requiring you to pay for a type. SWA is also PFT as they require you to get your own type.

If my FO does not show up, I leave and fly all by myself in our program. No job is on the line.

The experience in these FO programs will vary by captain, and that can hurt the experience.


Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
 
Treblesum81 said:
You may be checking out of the conversation, but I think you're missing a key point here: If the most sure fire way is to instruct for some amount of time, and I'm trying to avoid that, then I'm actually choosing a harder path. Trying to find a viable way around instructing is going to be a difficult task, since opportunities are limited and according to people like you, the market is flooded. I have to say that I find it interesting that at this point I'm receiving animosity not just for bringing up PFT in the first place, but for wanting to try a different route at all, as if I'm automatically a bad person and a bad pilot just because I don't want to instruct...
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10 pages of this? To the OP, just do whatever it is you're going to do. Don't want to instruct? Then don't instruct. Instead of arguing your position, just go out and do it. Soon enough, you'll know one way or another whether it was worth it or not. It may turn out to be, or it may not turn out to be. But arguing all over the internet about it with a bunch of people you don't even know, is nothing more than spinning your wheels.
 
MikeD said:
10 pages of this? To the OP, just do whatever it is you're going to do. Don't want to instruct? Then don't instruct. Instead of arguing your position, just go out and do it. Soon enough, you'll know one way or another whether it was worth it or not. It may turn out to be, or it may not turn out to be. But arguing all over the internet about it with a bunch of people you don't even know, is nothing more than spinning your wheels.
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I think you're right, though its natural to get defensive under such attacks. I thank you all for your input.
 
MikeD said:
10 pages of this? To the OP, just do whatever it is you're going to do. Don't want to instruct? Then don't instruct. Instead of arguing your position, just go out and do it. Soon enough, you'll know one way or another whether it was worth it or not. It may turn out to be, or it may not turn out to be. But arguing all over the internet about it with a bunch of people you don't even know, is nothing more than spinning your wheels.
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He wants people to agree with the choice he already made. We've seen plenty of these threads before, and will see many more in the future. He doesn't want advice, he wants reassurance .
 
jhugz said:
He wants people to agree with the choice he already made. We've seen plenty of these threads before, and will see many more in the future. He doesn't want advice, he wants reassurance .
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I have made no choices at all except not to instruct and probably not to do the FO program, I don't expect anyone to agree with that, but I will remain mystified as to why that generates such a bad reaction.
 
Treblesum81 said:
I said I had an issue with being a flying limo driver, not being a flying bus driver. I've seen first hand the way some people with money treat the "help," in this case, their private pilots, and I've got very little interest in experiencing that and would probably react fairly negatively if I did. Sure there are good ones, but from what I've heard, for every good one, there is at least one bad one, and I'm not a fan of those odds. Aside from that, corporate flying actually sounds quite nice, but its a balancing act, just like any other profession, and at least from where I'm sitting now, the issues outweigh the benefits.

As for being a bus driver, it seems to be more my type of gig, at least from where I'm sitting now.
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I worked corporate for 11 months, no union so less job security, but all the owners (they bought timeshares in the plane) treated me well and often tipped me. Now I fly for an airline and its the people that paid 75 dollars to fly from NYC to DTW that think they deserve a foot massage, 5 course meal, and practically throw a fit because a flight is 15 minutes late. Unfortunately, the starting airline pay is much weaker. Advantages and disadvantages to each...

I saw you said your leaning away from PFT which is good. Besides the ostracization and griping on the internet its not worth it to get a 25K/yr a job even if your a little older. The Metroliners, Beech 1900s, and Beech 99s that most PFJs often have you fly are not the massive jolt in career advancement they appear to be. Those are the smallest, slowest airliners (or former airliners) there are... and most guys still end up with the same jet job as the ones that didn't drop 30K.

Look at Landcare and American Patrols in TX (pipeline patrol), Van Wagner Aerial Media and Bobby's Landing (banner towing) in Florida. All have hired on minimum time... Pipeline patrol specifically pays really well. Good Luck!
 
When MikeD said low, dirty, and working this convo should have takin a swing for talking about thechive.. You came for advise and you got it from these wonderful people...so go do what you want I refuse to waste my two cents...

now more about low, dirty, and working
 
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