Fire Fighting - Two Fatal in AZ

[DE727UPS]

The plane had over 17,000 hour on the airframe. Holy crap. Seems like a lot outside 121 transport category stuff.

 

[Roger Roger]

The plane had over 17,000 hour on the airframe. Holy crap. Seems like a lot outside 121 transport category stuff.

*laughs in Alaska 135*

 

[ppragman]

*laughs in Alaska 135*

I bet ace has a Hondo over 100k now

 

[🦈💜]

The plane had over 17,000 hour on the airframe. Holy crap. Seems like a lot outside 121 transport category stuff.

The 207s I flew up in AK were mostly between 30,000 and 40,000, most of those hours flown at or near MGW, many of those hours in moderate turbulence.

Was kinda cool. I really loved those planes.

I've gotta say, of all the ways to die in an airplane, "the wing fell off while I was minding my own business" has to be one of the most terrifying to me.

We should never economize on structure, IMO.

 

[FlyingAccountant]

Final report came out a few weeks ago. It seems the wing failed in an area that was NOT the area previously repaired, however, it states if Falcon Executive had followed Textron's recommendations and replaced the spar, this would not have happened as the fatigued area that failed would have been replaced. The inspector that caught the repaired damage also failed to catch the damaged area of the same spar that ultimately failed in the same inspection.

https://data.ntsb.gov/carol-repgen/api/Aviation/ReportMain/GenerateNewestReport/103452/pdf

 

[Inverted]

Of course, if they replaced the entire spar, it wouldn't have happened. Textron would never recommend a spar repair of that nature over a replacement from a liability standpoint.

 

[form810]

Final report came out a few weeks ago. It seems the wing failed in an area that was NOT the area previously repaired, however, it states if Falcon Executive had followed Textron's recommendations and replaced the spar, this would not have happened as the fatigued area that failed would have been replaced. The inspector that caught the repaired damage also failed to catch the damaged area of the same spar that ultimately failed in the same inspection.

https://data.ntsb.gov/carol-repgen/api/Aviation/ReportMain/GenerateNewestReport/103452/pdf

Had they been in a real air attack bird (Turbine Commander), the wing would already have failed a long time ago, or it would last forever.

 

[Roger Roger]

Final report came out a few weeks ago. It seems the wing failed in an area that was NOT the area previously repaired, however, it states if Falcon Executive had followed Textron's recommendations and replaced the spar, this would not have happened as the fatigued area that failed would have been replaced. The inspector that caught the repaired damage also failed to catch the damaged area of the same spar that ultimately failed in the same inspection.

https://data.ntsb.gov/carol-repgen/api/Aviation/ReportMain/GenerateNewestReport/103452/pdf

So this is an interesting result. Sounds like the only issue with the repair was not getting it done as an AMOC to the AD, which would most likely have been approved had they requested it. Was the ultimately failed portion of the spar already cracked and the NDT tech just missed it? Was it not cracked yet? Was that portion of the inspection properly conducted? Ultimately yes, had they replaced the entire spar this wouldn’t have happened, but that’s not IMHO due to any great wisdom of Textron rather as mentioned above of course they’re going to recommend replacing the whole thing. I guess one possible takeaway is that if you have cracks in one location, as @inigo88 pointed out earlier, aluminum always has a finite fatigue life and that probably signals that the whole part is reaching its fatigue limit. Which maybe is the idea behind textrons requirement in the first place. I dunno.

 

[Roger Roger]

The 207s I flew up in AK were mostly between 30,000 and 40,000, most of those hours flown at or near MGW, many of those hours in moderate turbulence.

Was kinda cool. I really loved those planes.

I've gotta say, of all the ways to die in an airplane, "the wing fell off while I was minding my own business" has to be one of the most terrifying to me.

We should never economize on structure, IMO.

I keep waiting for the big killer AD from a wing falling off a 207 that finally makes it uneconomical to continue operating them but somehow the damn things just keep holding together. They did all have to get the lower wing strut attach reinforced about 5ish years ago but that’s about it.

 

[form810]

The 207s I flew up in AK were mostly between 30,000 and 40,000, most of those hours flown at or near MGW, many of those hours in moderate turbulence.

Was kinda cool. I really loved those planes.

I've gotta say, of all the ways to die in an airplane, "the wing fell off while I was minding my own business" has to be one of the most terrifying to me.

We should never economize on structure, IMO.

Ever actually look at the size of the bolts that hold wings onto fuselages? It's very, er, economical. Also, very terrifying from an intuitive, "common-sense" perspective. But, hey, what the heck do I know about shear strength vs millimeters of bolt width? They seem to work good and last a long time. I tend to trust 1950s engineers and slide rule-assisted math far more implicitly than I do modern "engineers" who place unquestioning trust in the ineffable chips and code that support their assumptions about the modern machines that go "ping". (I recently came into possession of a matchbook with a number on it that promises to bestow upon me an "engineering degree".)

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

Yep - this is the scary part of being a DER. There are lots of ground rules and assumptions that go into designing a repair like that, well above the AC43.13 “make your doubler look kinda like this” diagrams. Aluminum has no minimum fatigue strength so as soon as a metal airplane rolls off the assembly line and lifts off the runway for the first time the clock starts on the number of cycles the structure can take before it dies. And while the economics of aviation push everyone involved towards designing complicated repairs, sometimes the parts are a lost cause and have to be removed and replaced.

The DER might have absolutely messed up, but they may also have assumed the airplane didn’t have a history of a bunch of yahoos over-Ging it and then lying about it. There’s no amount of math that can fix that part.

Edit: Still don’t know enough to Monday morning QB but if the repair was contrary to the manufacturer’s recommendations and an AD… seems bad.

I quoted this because I liked it so much

 

[Richman]

I keep waiting for the big killer AD from a wing falling off a 207 that finally makes it uneconomical to continue operating them but somehow the damn things just keep holding together. They did all have to get the lower wing strut attach reinforced about 5ish years ago but that’s about it.

Strut-wing Cessnas are ridiculously strong. They’ll probably fly essentially forever.

210s (and 177s) are another story, and there is a story from the NE operator of 402s that was interesting.

 

[ahw01]

Strut-wing Cessnas are ridiculously strong. They’ll probably fly essentially forever.

210s (and 177s) are another story, and there is a story from the NE operator of 402s that was interesting.

How about the Caribbean 402 operator

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[Richman]

How about the Caribbean 402 operator

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I seem to remember reading a story about a 402, pilot wrote it up as requiring excessive trim, and it turns out the whole spar was cracked.

Stuff like that makes you want to knock on wood.

 

[ahw01]

I seem to remember reading a story about a 402, pilot wrote it up as requiring excessive trim, and it turns out the whole spar was cracked.

Stuff like that makes you want to knock on wood.

I mean he's not wrong

 

[form810]

Proper Headline SHOULD have been: Two Dead in Arizona Gender Reveal Flight, AntiFa Violent Rebelliion, Radical Environmentalist, Socialist Pizza Pedophile, Random Tweet Provocation, Fire Fighting Flight.