Female Afghan Pilot

And that is indeed why she should stay here. There are honorable men among Afghans but they need change on a societal level for sure. Same in Pakistan with honor killings and blasphemy laws.

Pakistan is worst. It's been in the news a lot lately due to all the rash of honor killings. The culture is slowly changing over there. But basically if you're a women over there and step out of culture expectations. Expect your family to kill you.
 
Are you serious right now? This is the place where young girls elementary age are raped, shot and killed for just wanting to go to school. But yeah, they're just gonna give her a pass.

She would never have the opportunity to be KIA, because they would never let her serve. Dangerous precedent. But more importantly because she would probably be already dead, as an example for daring to think that she could ever escape her low station as a female.

We have two twenty something Afghan guys on my psych unit currently, from jail for observation and a competency evaluation. They were both granted citizenship for assisting/translating for US troops while over there. Both of them are there for crimes against women, namely their wives. One beat shat out of his wife, for not wanting to have sex. So he beat her and raped her. The other is there for trying to stab his wife for threatening to file divorce.

Both dudes are very disrespectful to our female nurses staff and have no boundaries with women. One asked a female tech to help him with something in his room. When she got in there he was naked and had an erection and he ordered her to her knees, to give him head. He felt she should do it because he was a man, and he was entitled to it as a result. Both of their ideas of women are disgusting and not repeatable here. One said that family dog was held to higher respect than his wife.

Oh I believe it. Just today there was an article that an Afghani woman was beheaded because she went shopping alone (without her male relative escorting her) because the husband was in Iran on business.

Still, this shows that her life may be in danger because she's a woman. Not because she became a military pilot.


http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/17/world/asia/afghanistan-kandahar-women-in-the-work-force.html

These women were killed just for going to work. The official reply was that they'd still be alive, if they were at home. Get real dude.

I am real. This post and the post above shows that her life would probably be in danger *anyway* and that being a military pilot itself is not why her life is in danger - which is the basis for the asylum in the first place.

Sorry, but the US can't just be a blanket refugee-acceptance center for all oppressed women in Afghanistan.
 
Pakistan is worst. It's been in the news a lot lately due to all the rash of honor killings. The culture is slowly changing over there. But basically if you're a women over there and step out of culture expectations. Expect your family to kill you.

More so in the rural areas. City life, not so much. Some of the most extreme stuff is out in rural areas, especially in Pakistan where in the Northwest Frontier Province where the govt has literally no say and it's all tribal leaders. Also, in city life there is no shortage of underground clubs where lets just say the hijab is the first thing that flies off and it's off for drinks and mingling.

And that is indeed why she should stay here. There are honorable men among Afghans but they need change on a societal level for sure. Same in Pakistan with honor killings and blasphemy laws.

So we become the blanket accept-all refugees that are oppressed women from Afghanistan? No thanks.

Ask how refugee integration is working out in Europe. Problem is many, even the oppressed ones, come to the West but then are not willing to integrate and accept what the West is. We're still apparently the kaffirs doing non-Islamic things. What they can't comprehend is that the West figured out a long time ago to do exactly what it took to fix the oppression problem: separate church and state (in their case, mosque and state).
 
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Oh I believe it. Just today there was an article that an Afghani woman was beheaded because she went shopping alone (without her male relative escorting her) because the husband was in Iran on business.

Still, this shows that her life may be in danger because she's a woman. Not because she became a military pilot.

The fact that you feel that she should go back, knowing what will/would happen. While trying to put a positive spin on it shaheed is just wow. Who would just voluntarily return home already knowing that you're essentially already dead. She did nothing wrong, her government sent her here to train.

It's not her fault that her country men are knuckle dragging cavemen. But still you think that she should go home to her certain death.

Much easier to be pious and say that when it isn't you or anyone you know.
 
Oh I believe it. Just today there was an article that an Afghani woman was beheaded because she went shopping alone (without her male relative escorting her) because the husband was in Iran on business.

Still, this shows that her life may be in danger because she's a woman. Not because she became a military pilot.

Then there was the case of those two or three middle school age girls, and the boy that went to that dance. When gender mixing is still a taboo over there. The villagers or their families, or both killed them all for just dancing in the same room.
 
Then there was the case of those two or three middle school age girls, and the boy that went to that dance. When gender mixing is still a taboo over there. The villagers or their families, or both killed them all for just dancing in the same room.

Yes, out in the village somewhere. It's bad out there. Same system that allows multiple gang rape as "punishment" handed down from the town council. The whole thing is a bad, sick, dirty thing. But that's not official government punishment for that action. That's a distinction (although the government still has silly and ridiculous things like blasphemy laws).

The fact that you feel that she should go back, knowing what will/would happen. While trying to put a positive spin on it shaheed is just wow. Who would just voluntarily return home already knowing that you're essentially already dead. She did nothing wrong, her government sent her here to train.

It's not her fault that her country men are knuckle dragging cavemen. But still you think that she should go home to her certain death.

Much easier to be pious and say that when it isn't you or anyone you know.

Come on Max, we don't know if she will be killed for sure. She did do one wrong. She voluntarily signed up, the military paid for her training, sent her to a world-class flight training facility, but then she deserted her military and her duty of service which she signed up for. She could be killed in Afghanistan for any number of things, but there is no proof that this is the one thing that would do her in. In fact, this job of all the job for women in Afghanistan, is probably as "safe" as it can get for her. Live on an airbase, fly transport category aircraft away from small arms fire. I honestly don't know the numbers... how many Afghani airman have been killed in the war?

On the role model aspect, how many role models do you know that became role models for basically leaving and seeking political asylum? Every popular role model did something positive for their side, their country, and/or their people. Mandela ended up being jailed. Ghandi was big on peaceful protest and was eventually killed. The only thing she is showing here is go and do something you can be trained for outside Afghanistan, and once you're out, seek political asylum and don't come back.
 
Her family has had to move to escape death threats how many times again???

But naw, we don't know nothing for sure.

Goodnight dude. I've been up for eighteen hours, done with you.

That's just called living in Afghanistan. The whole country is a mess and always will be so as long as dirka dirka dirka stays in the ruling form of government and its laws. Deny her political asylum, #MAGA , good night & get some rest! Today is my last stretch of 9 days off, and back to work tomorrow.
 
The level of cognitive dissonance in this thread is astounding.

Minor point of order: one who hails from Afghanistan is an Afghan. Not an Afghani. Afghani is the currency.
 
Yet these are the chit-bag countries with their ass backwards religious way of thinking, that we keep supporting and propping up. These places with horrific women's rights records. And not just chit-holes like Afghan, but modern middle east nations like the Gulf states. They're the same.

We can't sit and say we support women's rights, when we support, defend, and take money from, and pay money to, places like Saudi Arabia and other such wastelands where women are definitely 3rd class citizens, if even.



His stated position is to vett them, not bar them. Meaning check out who is attempting to come here, rather than leave a gate wide open and unchecked. Not a difficult concept. Someone like this, should be an easy shoe-in.



So what have we accomplished in 16 years there now?

That place is not going to become a little 51st state of the union. And the longer our idiot politicians here in the USA figure that out, the better off we will be. It's a chit hole, always has been, always will be.

Our mission in 2001 was simple: attack and destroy the Taliban and Al Queda; capture/kill Osama Bin Laden. We screwed that up when we morphed into nation building BS, and got ourselves bogged down there with that. And we never really accomplished the first goal.

Can we please not pretend that our politicans and leaders don't make a ton of money with the military industrial complex and continuous war. If it wasn't profitable we would have stopped a long time ago. It has nothing to do with our values and you know that.
 
Yes, out in the village somewhere. It's bad out there. Same system that allows multiple gang rape as "punishment" handed down from the town council. The whole thing is a bad, sick, dirty thing. But that's not official government punishment for that action. That's a distinction (although the government still has silly and ridiculous things like blasphemy laws).



Come on Max, we don't know if she will be killed for sure. She did do one wrong. She voluntarily signed up, the military paid for her training, sent her to a world-class flight training facility, but then she deserted her military and her duty of service which she signed up for. She could be killed in Afghanistan for any number of things, but there is no proof that this is the one thing that would do her in. In fact, this job of all the job for women in Afghanistan, is probably as "safe" as it can get for her. Live on an airbase, fly transport category aircraft away from small arms fire. I honestly don't know the numbers... how many Afghani airman have been killed in the war?

On the role model aspect, how many role models do you know that became role models for basically leaving and seeking political asylum? Every popular role model did something positive for their side, their country, and/or their people. Mandela ended up being jailed. Ghandi was big on peaceful protest and was eventually killed. The only thing she is showing here is go and do something you can be trained for outside Afghanistan, and once you're out, seek political asylum and don't come back.
I'm not sure why I'm getting into this but just want to point out a couple of things from the article...she filed her petition for asylum in the summer, not when she was getting loaded on the plane to go home.
Article said:
This summer, she filed a petition seeking asylum in the United States, where she hopes to eventually join the Air Force.
The forces you're claiming she deserted stopped paying her when she started flight training. She went through this, and I'm sure the US government used this for political reasons to keep her in training, but it's already paid for. So how is she deserting under these conditions?
Article again said:
But that resolve has eroded in recent months. The Afghan Air Force stopped paying her salary shortly after the American training program began, Captain Rahmani said.
 
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I can't believe that many of you on here have glazed over the fact the @Cherokee_Cruiser, is saying that this girl is better off going back home and getting honor killed by her family. All for the supposed glory of becoming a frickin' shaheed. SERIOUSLY???

Why am I the only one just now taking issue with what he said?

WTF, BRO!?
You aren't. I posted the panda meme because it's exactly what I would like to do with his computer. lol I refuse to keep going down these inane roads to try and dialogue with him any longer though. It's pointless. I am better off talking with one of my dogs. I just went there with him here http://forums.jetcareers.com/threads/russian-tu-154-down-in-black-sea.244923/page-2 and here http://forums.jetcareers.com/threads/trump-giving-gift-and-president-elect.242146/page-189

This is the b.s. that takes place in every thread he decides to go on a tear in. He's so illogical, backpeddling, erratic, nonsensical, illogical and convoluted in this thinking that I simply realized that there is no point in pursuing any dialogue with him any longer. I just don't have the time and energy to waste chasing him down his irrational, idiotic, unsound and unjustifiable, crazy assed rabbit holes any longer. There is no conclusion, there is no resolve.

You tried and you see the result. Nothing changes. The situation only gets worse and becomes even more unhinged.

Hope you get some well deserved rest, a good meal and time with your partner to relax and have some fun afterwards. Hang in there Max.
 
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These women were killed just for going to work. The official reply was that they'd still be alive, if they were at home. Get real dude.

Yet we defend these a-holes over there.

Remember the US Army Sergeant who was brought up on charges and was going to be kicked out of the Army for beating up an Afghan militia commander who had kidnapped and raped a boy? The legal hell that guy went through in order to keep his career, in indefensible. Especially since there was a policy for our troops to not interfere in child sex crimes being committed by Afghan military/police and civilians.

Our own freaking government is complicit.

Story here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/30/u...cer-for-raping-boy-can-stay-in-army.html?_r=0

"A decorated United States Army sergeant who hit an American-backed Afghan commander for raping a boy will be allowed to remain in the military, a spokesman said Friday.

Sgt. First Class Charles Martland, a member of the Special Forces, had helped to beat up the Afghan militia commander, Abdul Rahman, in 2011 after he abducted a boy and kept him chained to his bed as a sex slave. Sergeant Martland later told Army officials that he and a Special Forces captain, Dan Quinn, “felt that morally we could no longer stand by” and allow the Afghan local police “to commit atrocities.”

After the episode, Captain Quinn was relieved of his command; he withdrew from Afghanistan and later left the military. But Sergeant Martland was put under an Army-wide review program that trims the number of its noncommissioned officers when their military records show performance or conduct that is “inconsistent” with standards.

An initial decision to forcibly discharge him by Nov. 1, 2015, was delayed; in March 2016, the Army said it had postponed the discharge decision again, until May 1, to allow time for Sergeant Martland to appeal.

The beating and its effect on the two men’s Army careers brought scrutiny to a policy of instructing American soldiers and Marines not to intervene in cases of child sex abuse by their Afghan allies.

In an article in the New York Times last year, the spokesman for the American command in Afghanistan, Col. Brian Tribus, said of the United States’ military policy, “Generally, allegations of child sexual abuse by Afghan military or police personnel would be a matter of domestic Afghan criminal law.”

He added that “there would be no express requirement that U.S. military personnel in Afghanistan report it.” An exception, he said, is when rape is being used as a weapon of war.


US Soldiers told to ignore child rape by Afghan allies (story here):


http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/21/w...ld-to-ignore-afghan-allies-abuse-of-boys.html

 
Can we please not pretend that our politicans and leaders don't make a ton of money with the military industrial complex and continuous war. If it wasn't profitable we would have stopped a long time ago. It has nothing to do with our values and you know that.

Sure, there's the money. And the MIC.

But lets not stand here and espouse values of X, when we ignore them overseas for political expediency.
 
Sure, there's the money. And the MIC.

But lets not stand here and espouse values of X, when we ignore them overseas for political expediency.

You need to have the pageantry of the values etc so you can justify deploying people 8 millions times in their career and spending like 30 trillion dollars on the F-35 and KC-46.
 
I'm not sure why I'm getting into this but just want to point out a couple of things from the article...she filed her petition for asylum in the summer, not when she was getting loaded on the plane to go home.
Regardless, she purposely missed her flight back. I wonder how long a military training visa/contract allows someone to stay here while filing a political asylum?

The forces you're claiming she deserted stopped paying her when she started flight training. She went through this, and I'm sure the US government used this for political reasons to keep her in training, but it's already paid for. So how is she deserting under these conditions?
She was expected to fly back and serve in a flying capacity. She is not in a place where she should be according to her itinerary. It's either desertion or dereliction of duty? Some military guys can chime in about the term used for when you finish training and are expected to show up somewhere but don't.


You aren't. I posted the panda meme because it's exactly what I would like to do with his computer. lol I refuse to keep going down these inane roads to try and dialogue with him any longer though. It's pointless. I am better off talking with one of my dogs. I just went there with him here http://forums.jetcareers.com/threads/russian-tu-154-down-in-black-sea.244923/page-2 and here http://forums.jetcareers.com/threads/trump-giving-gift-and-president-elect.242146/page-189

This is the b.s. that takes place in every thread he decides to go on a tear in. He's so illogical, backpeddling, erratic, nonsensical, illogical and convoluted in this thinking that I simply realized that there is no point in pursuing any dialogue with him any longer. I just don't have the time and energy to waste chasing him down his irrational, idiotic, unsound and unjustifiable, crazy assed rabbit holes any longer. There is no conclusion, there is no resolve.

You tried and you see the result. Nothing changes. The situation only gets worse and becomes even more unhinged.

Hope you get some well deserved rest, a good meal and time with your partner to relax and have some fun afterwards. Hang in there Max.

This is why Trump won. Where's Avgirl anyway, did you scare her away?
 
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