wjmiller3
Well-Known Member
As said above, fltplan.com is about the best tool out there in my opinion. And I do a lot of last minute trips, and it is more valuable than gold for that kind of flying.
Favorite Flight Planning Websites
- Thread starter TXTBOOK
- Start date
As said above, fltplan.com is about the best tool out there in my opinion. And I do a lot of last minute trips, and it is more valuable than gold for that kind of flying.
fholbert
Mod's - Please don't edit my posts!
????
My great grandfather said the same thing about airplanes.
If god wanted man to fly...
fholbert
Mod's - Please don't edit my posts!
The E6-B is an outdated tool that I last used when Bush #1 was president. Sure it gets the job done but so does an abacus.
A sectional chart is fine in the cockpit but you can't overlay weather or TFR's.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
We didn't have an autopilot when I got my instrument rating.
Didn't have GPS either.
DME only worked half the time.
We were doing full procedure, partial panel NDB approaches with the published missed and a hold because the attitude indicator was busted and there was no radar anywhere near where we were.
When I got to Amflight, same kind of flying.
This idea of every airplane having an autopilot and a GPS is still incredibly new to me. I started flying in 1998 and didn't touch a GPS until 2005.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
That's fantastic; I don't really care, either.
No JFK Jr. died because he was a VFR pilot that continued into marginal VFR conditions. He died because he made bad decisions and paid for them with his life. This feel good crap about "Oh if he had just used the technology..." is just that; crap. If he hadn't gotten in over his head he'd be here today, and instead of making excuses about how technology could have saved him, we should hold that accident up for what it is; a pilot dying because of bad decisions.
Great! Sounds like we're coming at things from similar experiences.
Another mistake: flight review. This thread is about a student doing cross country flights, not a private pilot doing a BFR.
Primary training is about basic skills.
fholbert
Mod's - Please don't edit my posts!
Have you guys used http://weathermeister.com/ ? Easy to read in plain english. Easy to customize to your local area. The bad stuff is color coded. I've used it since 2004.
Fltplan.com
It has almost everything I need. It's amazing how much stuff is available there once you get digging into the site.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
The big boys don't do flight planning.
Dispatchers do flight planning.
EDIT: More so, there needs to be a quick discussion here about putting the carriage before the horse.
You're doing primary training, you need to be learning primary, fundamental skills. Those skills are not how to use computer programs to flight plan. Those skills involve plotters, E6B's, pilotage, etc.
A lot of people here are responding assuming that you're pretty far along in your training, and if I read things correctly, you're still a student pilot. You don't need to learn what "the big boys" do right now, you need to learn how to be a PILOT, and a huge part of that is understanding the scope of your operations.
You don't operate a Cessna the way you operate a jet. Learn the fundamentals now, and don't get too far ahead of yourself.
TXTBOOK
Well-Known Member
I had a post written out trying to explain my point of this thread, but this is the reality:
I'm interested in seeing how you guys, more accomplished aviators, flight plan. I'd like to learn from you as to what resources you use. I'm not really asking about the pro's and con's of using flight planning resources versus not using them, or asking to be told what kind of training I'm supposed to be doing.
I'm interested in seeing how you guys, more accomplished aviators, flight plan. I'd like to learn from you as to what resources you use. I'm not really asking about the pro's and con's of using flight planning resources versus not using them, or asking to be told what kind of training I'm supposed to be doing.
Guess it depends on your definition of "the big boys". I do my own flight planning, and one of my rides routinely flies FL450+ at M0.80+.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
Indeed, I see "big boys" and I think, well, big. You know, more than an 8 seat twin Cessna
Indeed, I see "big boys" and I think, well, big. You know, more than an 8 seat twin Cessna
Well I was talking about the Lear, but anyway...wanna race?
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
Well I was talking about the Lear, but anyway...wanna race?
I'd love to, I've got a checkout in a Cessna 152 at the local FBO.
But how about we make it sporting; do a race to a 1,000' grass strip, and you have to be able to use the aircraft again
I'd love to, I've got a checkout in a Cessna 152 at the local FBO.
But how about we make it sporting; do a race to a 1,000' grass strip, and you have to be able to use the aircraft again
So now a C152 is one of "the big guys"? Funny how your perspective changes as needed.
Blackhawk
Well-Known Member
No, primary training is not just about basic skills. This is the old "Maneuvers Based Training" which emphasized the mastery of individual tasks or elements- that is training just maneuvers.
Primary training should include risk management, ADM and single pilot resource management ON EVERY FLIGHT using all the assets available to the pilot. Does this mean stick and rudder skills are not important? No. Just that they mean little unless taught in context. The time to learn this is not after the private pilot check ride when they can hop in a plane and fly through class B airspace on their own- in OUR airspace. Pilots need to be taught ALL the skills necessary to make them safe, not just some of them. As an example, I start my students using a sectional and going to a different airport from day 1 (actually, day 2 if we do a discovery flight). We don't do silly s-turns, we fly along a river. They learn from day one to point out landmarks, tune the radio, if there's a GPS we use it as well to see how it works and can help them.
Yes, JFK Jr. made some bad decisions. But that's my point. His flight training probably was maneuver based and did not deal with decision making, nor how to use the systems on his airplane once he got into trouble. Student pilots should face "problems that can get them over their head" on most flights. I'm sick of CFIs not training pilots properly, then when they get into trouble going "Oh well". No, not "oh well". How about teaching pilots all the skills they need to survive. As I've ranted before, I'm tired of flying with pilots who have been "check out" in airplanes but were not even taught how to turn on the autopilot, how to use their avionics and other systems. Do they need to know how to navigate using a sectional? Certainly. But that is only part of flying.
I've taught for a number of years, both military and civilian. I saw some of the mistakes of my earlier teaching- particularly concentrating on maneuvers out of context, lack of emphasis on ADM and pilot resource management. It almost killed me a couple of times when pilots did what they were trained to do- or they flew the way they were taught. We did not train them the way they were suppose to fly on each mission, then it almost bit me. Pilots should be "trained the way they'll fly" from day one, then they will "fly the way they were trained".
The airlines have also learned and have turned more toward LOFTS and scenario based training where you have to use ALL your resources to effect a safe outcome. Sometimes this means not flying, but managing the cockpit.
Back to the original subject of flight planning software and it's tie to this. It's a tool that enhances flight safety, makes planning easier and safer(and thus increases the chance that pilots will do it), and gives them more information about a flight then they could possibly obtain in the same amount of time. As such it should be taught to pilots in conjunction with stubby pencil.
dasleben
That's just, like, your opinion, man
You make it sound as if I've done nothing but fly autopilot-equipped aircraft with GPS.
Trust me, my hands aren't dainty and soft; I've done those NDB approaches to minimums at night in mountainous terrain out on the line down, blah blah *chest thumping*.Anyway, after a pretty decent amount of SPIFR experience, I stick by my original post: If an aircraft has an autopilot installed, it's a mistake to not teach its use to primary instrument students. Certainly they should first learn how to hand fly, but as time goes on they should become familiar and comfortable with its use to help reduce workload and make SPIFR safer. The same is true for GPS. Learn the basics first, but don't just ignore it as time goes on. If the aircraft is equipped, teach it. Blackhawk's post about maneuver-based training is spot on. You can teach a student to fly partial-panel NDB approaches under the hood all day long, but when it comes to managing the cockpit single-pilot using all available resources, he's behind the power curve.
The same holds true for flight planning. Learn to do it manually, first. However, learn to use other more convenient resources later on. Personally, I love SkyVector. When I get a chance to fly to somewhere new, that's primarily what I use. I look over the route with SkyVector and the appropriate paper charts, then plug everything into DUATS to spit out a flight plan with fuel burn, time, etc. My experience with the aircraft allows me to do this; I'm comfortable looking at the printout and saying "Yeah, that looks about right." For someone new to an aircraft or new to flying in general, a manual flightplan may be a better idea.