Blackhawk
Well-Known Member
Lier, lier pants on fire. You're using the internet right now.
Favorite Flight Planning Websites
- Thread starter TXTBOOK
- Start date
Lier, lier pants on fire. You're using the internet right now.
Kestrel452
Well-Known Member
Blackhawk
Well-Known Member
You got me dude.
BTW, it's spelled "liar"
What are you talking about? I was refering to the fact that you are reclining.
Kestrel452
Well-Known Member
Blackhawk
Well-Known Member
While I do think a pilot should be able to do flight planning the old fashioned way, I also think it's silly not to use all the information you have available. With Voyager, for example, I can:
1. Have it figure the most favorable winds.
2. Have it figure the cheapest gas.
3. Get and download charts for the airports, get contact information, rental car information... etc.
4. I can look at a plot of my route on a map and overlay any/all weather products to include radar, METARs/TAFs.
5. I can get a profile view to see about terrain, weather and airspace along the route of flight.
6. If I need to change my route, simply drag and drop.
7. I can have it figure my route; a 600 NM route takes about 10 seconds. By hand...
These are just a few of the reasons.
BTW, when I flew for Special Operations in the Army we had to be able to do it by hand prior to using all the wizzard stuff. Plan and hit a target several hundred miles away, at night, +-30 seconds. And the target did not have any lights.
We had to maintain proficiency at this, yet when we planned missions we went to computers. Falcon View was the cat's meow, but today pilots would look at it and yawn. Still, I would hardly say we were lazy.
1. Have it figure the most favorable winds.
2. Have it figure the cheapest gas.
3. Get and download charts for the airports, get contact information, rental car information... etc.
4. I can look at a plot of my route on a map and overlay any/all weather products to include radar, METARs/TAFs.
5. I can get a profile view to see about terrain, weather and airspace along the route of flight.
6. If I need to change my route, simply drag and drop.
7. I can have it figure my route; a 600 NM route takes about 10 seconds. By hand...
These are just a few of the reasons.
BTW, when I flew for Special Operations in the Army we had to be able to do it by hand prior to using all the wizzard stuff. Plan and hit a target several hundred miles away, at night, +-30 seconds. And the target did not have any lights.
We had to maintain proficiency at this, yet when we planned missions we went to computers. Falcon View was the cat's meow, but today pilots would look at it and yawn. Still, I would hardly say we were lazy.
Blackhawk
Well-Known Member
I use them both. I like wundergound.com better for strategic planning, aviationweather.gov for TAFs and stuff.
bksslc
Well-Known Member
I never said anyone was lazy, just that flight planning websites can make a person lazy if that is all they rely upon for flight planning purposes. I don't see a problem with a seasoned pilot using them, they are an excellent recource to have available. I still maintain my position though that a PPL student should not use them. They shouldn't even be introduced to them in the first couple hundred hours. If a DPE were to ask how you came up with the numbers you did for your time, fuel, distance and you reply fltplan.com, DUATS, or something similar that dosen't look good at all. Especially when they ask you to pull out your wiz wheel and show them right then and there how to do it.
USMCmech
Well-Known Member
I LOVE fltplan.com, and I use it and avwx.gov almost exclusively.
That said when I was a CFI I never allowed my students to use it until they had proven they could make one up by hand. I don't know a single DPE that would accept a computer printout either.
Blackhawk
Well-Known Member
Why shouldn't a private pilot be introduced to something that will make them a safer pilot? Who is going to teach them to use flight plannign software? So no GPS either? No use of VORs or ADFs? Heck, get rid of all the instruments. No radios either. They're also a crutch. And these flap thingys... no using them until they have 250 hours. A pilot should have to learn to slip properly first. Oh, and all of you with the small wheel in the wrong place- you need to fly a tail wheel before you can fly the training wheel airplanes.
Did I forget anything?
chuckles1225
Well-Known Member
I like SkyVector for general destination selection and route planning. With the new flight plan feature that allows you to put in your GS you can figure out time enroute and if you'll need fuel stops. A very useful resource for CFIs with a target hobbs in mind. A lot easier than going out and buying a bunch of sectionals or WACs. From there its all pilotage/DR on paper and E6B.
DUAT and FLTplan are designed for IFR flights and have saved me countless hours. Pick a departure and destination, program tells you the best route and altitude and plans it instantly for you, drops all of that info in the filing form, and you hit submit and go out to pre-flight. What once took 30 minutes now takes 3.
DUAT and FLTplan are designed for IFR flights and have saved me countless hours. Pick a departure and destination, program tells you the best route and altitude and plans it instantly for you, drops all of that info in the filing form, and you hit submit and go out to pre-flight. What once took 30 minutes now takes 3.
Blackhawk
Well-Known Member
Show me where in the PTS it states a student can't use a computerized NAVLOG? I have no problems with pilots using a computerized NAVLOG and I am very old school. They just need to show me that they can confirm the data that is in the NAVLOG. It is a tool- just as a GPS, a VOR an ADF or any other flight item is a tool. This reminds me a instructors who refuse to teach private pilots how to use an autopilot installed in an airplane. Their use should be taught from day one if it's installed so a pilot can use it to get out of a jam if needed.
No one said anything about not using a sectional.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
It's not there, it's in jtrain's guide to teaching people how to fly airplanes, and it's a guide that is followed to the letter if people want to receive instruction fro me. I've got my reasons, and if you're an instructor I'm sure you have some things that you're very particular about.
Pilots, or students? I've used DUATS extensively and I love AOPA's flight planner. That being said, I'm a little bit beyond my solo cross country days and I'm pretty well versed in how to use a sectional and plan a flight by hand.
With that in mind, what happens when your student diverts and has to figure out how to get from Q back to A and doesn't have access to a computer?
I wasn't even taught to use the autopilot first at the regional, in a jet that's really designed to be flown with the autopilot (in my opinion). We were taught concurrently how to hand fly, how to input data into the FD, and how to use the autopilot. We had to show equal proficiency with all levels of automation.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
Oh and I should also add: I wouldn't let a student solo until I did a lesson on spins with them, and I wouldn't sign a student off for their private pilot checkride until they had ACTUAL instrument time with me.
Are those things in the PTS? Nope, not at all; but they were thought were important, and I wouldn't sign a student off without them.
If they didn't like it, they were free to work with another instructor.
Are those things in the PTS? Nope, not at all; but they were thought were important, and I wouldn't sign a student off without them.
If they didn't like it, they were free to work with another instructor.
wjmiller3
Well-Known Member
dasleben
That's just, like, your opinion, man
And frankly, I think that's a mistake. Learning how to properly use an autopilot during primary instrument training is important. You're teaching them how to fly safe single-pilot IFR. Nothing trains them better than learning how to use all levels of automation to reduce workload, even in a light GA aircraft.
Blackhawk
Well-Known Member
Then you aren't teaching IAW FAA guidance which is to teach pilots to use all of their tools- not just some of them. This is the attitude that helped lead to the death of JFK Jr.- he was not even taught to use the autopilot in his airplane.
I was also a pilot for a regional. We were taught from day one how to effectively use an autopilot, but we were also expected to be able to fly single engine approaches to minimums without an autopilot.
As for flight planning, from the FAA's "Conducting an Effective Flight Review":
"Appropriate use of these tools can enhance safety in several ways: they provide
precise course and heading information; the convenience may encourage more
consistent use of a flight plan; and automating manual calculations leaves more
time to consider weather, performance, terrain, alternatives, and other aspects of
the flight. Encouraging the pilot to use his or her preferred online tool will give
you a more realistic picture of real-world behavior, and the computer-generated
plan will give you an excellent opportunity to point out both the advantages and
the potential pitfalls of this method."precise course and heading information; the convenience may encourage more
consistent use of a flight plan; and automating manual calculations leaves more
time to consider weather, performance, terrain, alternatives, and other aspects of
the flight. Encouraging the pilot to use his or her preferred online tool will give
you a more realistic picture of real-world behavior, and the computer-generated
plan will give you an excellent opportunity to point out both the advantages and
TXTBOOK
Well-Known Member
While I am interested in different opinions on how to train, I made this thread hoping to gain insight on pilot resources: What's good, how to use it, and any tricks or tips.
As for me personally, I've learned to use the E6B, the plotter and the charts in a classroom setting, and have become proficient in doing so on my own as well. On top of that, this is "JetCareers" and not "PropCareers", so I post here to see how the "big boys" do it and I try my best to take the best and what I like about you guys and apply it to myself, the little guy.
As for me personally, I've learned to use the E6B, the plotter and the charts in a classroom setting, and have become proficient in doing so on my own as well. On top of that, this is "JetCareers" and not "PropCareers", so I post here to see how the "big boys" do it and I try my best to take the best and what I like about you guys and apply it to myself, the little guy.
chuckles1225
Well-Known Member
Couldn't agree more! I have had students who were actually afraid of using the simple KAP 140 AP on a skyhawk because they had no idea how to use it. CFIs do their students a disservice by not teaching them how to efficiently use ALL of the equipment on board the aircraft, and DPEs should test students on ALL of the equipment during check rides.