Falcon dual eng failure

Apparently there are fuel shutoff valves near the wing root that mx uses. This is on the pre-flight, but it is often not checked by the crews. So, the only fuel available to them was from the feeder tanks.

This is from someone who works at Royal; the crew was flying the next day.

Disclaimer: I know zero about the Falcon 20.
 
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EIR said:
Apparently there are fuel shutoff valves near the wing root that mx uses. This is on the pre-flight, but it is often not checked by the crews. So, the only fuel available to them was from the feeder tanks.

This is from someone who works at Royal; the crew was flying the next day.

Disclaimer: I know zero about the Falcon 20.
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I’m curious about those valves, any chance you can get a better description?
 
Corporate Pilot said:
See attached for 20 fuel system.
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Most of my Falcon experience has been on 50s and 900s, the only MX I can remember doing on a 20 was strictly engine related. The transfer valves in the cabin wouldn't stop the fuel flow to the engines, the shut-off valves in that diagram seem odd. How are they actuated? I'm not trying to stir up nonsense, I'm curious. Why are they there?
 
knot4u said:
Most of my Falcon experience has been on 50s and 900s, the only MX I can remember doing on a 20 was strictly engine related. The transfer valves in the cabin wouldn't stop the fuel flow to the engines, the shut-off valves in that diagram seem odd. How are they actuated? I'm not trying to stir up nonsense, I'm curious. Why are they there?
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page 2 of the PDF, 2nd and 3rd paragraph on the left side.

If I were to guess I’d say it is probably a MX only kind of thing for when the need to drain the feeder tanks for inspections/repairs, replacement since it isolates them from the wing tanks.
 
Beep said:
page 2 of the PDF, 2nd and 3rd paragraph on the left side.

If I were to guess I’d say it is probably a MX only kind of thing for when the need to drain the feeder tanks for inspections/repairs, replacement since it isolates them from the wing tanks.
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I'm just guessing, but I'd say that those valves are accessible from the cabin so the crew can transfer fuel in flight, I'm not sure how the crew would access them if the cabin is full of cargo. Falcons are just slightly below Hawkers when it comes to mechanical steampunk engineering. If I was a Falcon 20 pilot the position of those valves would be part of my preflight regardless of what anyone said.
 
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It has been 25 years since I flew the 20 but I did get 4,500 hours in them. In pilot training we were told the valves were there in case there was a fuel leak between them and the feeders. In reality I believe maintenance is the only time they were closed, not something we normally checked on a walk around. On a passenger 20 they are easy to get to, about 2/3 of the way back, in the cabin, under the carpet. I am guessing they would be under the freight on a freighter.

There are transfer lights to warn that the transfer pressure is low but if they had been dimmed it would be hard to notice. In that case you would have to notice that the fuel level in the feeders is dropping. Since this was an early 20 I am guessing it still had the small feeders, 900lbs total if I remember right. 900lbs does not last long with 2 CF700's at takeoff and climb power. I believe at idle on the ground both of them would also burn around 900lbs total an hour.
 
knot4u said:
I'm just guessing, but I'd say that those valves are accessible from the cabin so the crew can transfer fuel in flight, I'm not sure how the crew would access them if the cabin is full of cargo. Falcons are just slightly below Hawkers when it comes to mechanical steampunk engineering. If I was a Falcon 20 pilot the position of those valves would be part of my preflight regardless of what anyone said.
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the engines on those airplanes are fed by the feeder tanks, and those are fed by the wing tanks, so a pilot wouldn’t ( or shouldn’t ) be using those valves unless directed to do so by a checklist.
Some of the 20s have “ small “ feeder tanks, and some have “ large “ feeder tanks, but both sizes are fed the same way from the wings.
 
Beep said:
the engines on those airplanes are fed by the feeder tanks, and those are fed by the wing tanks, so a pilot wouldn’t ( or shouldn’t ) be using those valves unless directed to do so by a checklist.
Some of the 20s have “ small “ feeder tanks, and some have “ large “ feeder tanks, but both sizes are fed the same way from the wings.
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also… I wonder if the pilots got the low fuel annunciation warning lights to let them know the fuel level in the feeder tanks was low before they ran out?

aaaaand I just quoted myself.
:smoke:
 
Corporate Pilot said:
It has been 25 years since I flew the 20 but I did get 4,500 hours in them. In pilot training we were told the valves were there in case there was a fuel leak between them and the feeders. In reality I believe maintenance is the only time they were closed, not something we normally checked on a walk around. On a passenger 20 they are easy to get to, about 2/3 of the way back, in the cabin, under the carpet. I am guessing they would be under the freight on a freighter.

There are transfer lights to warn that the transfer pressure is low but if they had been dimmed it would be hard to notice. In that case you would have to notice that the fuel level in the feeders is dropping. Since this was an early 20 I am guessing it still had the small feeders, 900lbs total if I remember right. 900lbs does not last long with 2 CF700's at takeoff and climb power. I believe at idle on the ground both of them would also burn around 900lbs total an hour.
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Easy to get to? Buried beneath the carpet? Okay. How may Falcons that you flew had the tool stored behind the pilots seat, and if it was did you know why it was there? Those valves weren't put there for MX. That's pilot stuff.
 
EAD said:
Not saying anything about ATC, but did anyone else find it funny when he said "Descend and maintain" to an aircraft that is, by definition, now a glider?
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the thought that went through my mind when I heard that was “I’m an emergency aircraft. Altitude at my discretion.”
 
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