Failed CFI Initial (warning long write up)

bc2209

Well-Known Member
Well after months of preparation and studying and nerves I took and failed the test last Wednesday. I am writing this to help fellow candidates and do my part to pay it forward, of sorts.

The morning was scheduled to start at 9 a.m. and I arrived and prepped my collection of books and what not's early. I had everything laid out accordingly with the focus on my logbook, medical, written tests, etc. The examiner ended up showing early about 40 minutes to run through the paper work process and to get it out of the way.

He started by making sure all my endorsements were in order in which he found one was missing. My instructor was also in the room to make sure things were going smoothly. Turns out I did not have the appropriate endorsement and logs of the missed questions on the written test. It was a quick and easy fix but the examiner did exclaim that things go much more smoothly when all paper work is in order.

With the endorsements and IACRA out of the way we started and began the rest of the check ride. I'll admit I was very nervous and it probably showed.

He wanted to first point out and setup for what would be the rest of the day and how he wanted me to build the teaching. The examiner said he was a former military pilot (C-130) with 3000 hours. He had gone to the FSDO to convert and get his CMEL certificate. He was coming to me to get his CSEL and expected me to train appropriately.

He then began to say he wanted to see responsibilities and professionalism of flight instructors and aeronautical decision making that would encompass situational awareness, risk management, time management, single pilot resource management, etc.

I ran through the responsibilities and professionalism with no problem. I then transitioned into the aeronautical decison making part. Some of the highlights were the FRAT form we use at the school to identify risk factors such as alcohol use within 24 hours, pilot with less than 100 hours in make and model, and so forth. He was very pleased that I had shown this to him. I mentioned although it is a great resource and tool it is not all encompassing. I went on to identify the FAA mnemonics such as PAVE and IMSAFE in which I went into great detail regarding each letter. He was satisfied about half way through the lesson. I also tied in stress, which is a normal feature. However, I specifically went into my conversations with some brand new Chinese students who had explained just how nervous they were regarding ATC communications. I could hear and see just how much stress they were actually experiencing. He really liked this point and went on to say and tell his experiences which seemed even worse with other students.

Since he was getting an added rating I needed to look up that part in the FAR/AIM which I believe is 61.63. He was not required to abide by any hour requirement or a knowledge test. However, you need to look in the PTS for the required items to be covered for a CSEL ad-on.

I then started talking about the arrow systems. Since he was playing a student who was familiar with flying and complex airplanes it was much easier. I started with and went through the hydraulic landing gear, fuel system and constant speed propeller stuff. I left out electrical on purpose as that is my weakest area. However, he cut me short as he was satisfied before even going there.

Everything was going SO WELL that I almost had to pinch myself. All of a sudden this person who was teaching the stuff couldn't have been me. I mean something freaking happened I just blew it out of the water way beyond my expectations and abilities. I might have gotten a little cocky which got me in trouble later.

He asked if I was hungry and wanted to take me out to lunch. He told me to grab some of my stuff to teach Chandelles and to meet him at a pizza place down the road. As we ate some great pizza he told me about his story and I told her about mine. After we were done I proceeded to teach him about the maneuver which he thought was satisfactory. He then started asking about some electrical stuff which I had to look up. All in all the guy is great and really helped me more than put me down. He always let me look something up if I wasn't sure and APPRECIATED that I looked it up instead of just told him a wrong or passed down answer. Such as checking the prop three times.

We made our way back to the school and went over runway incursions and some other stuff all of which were great. I was feeling so good and we were joking around that I almost felt invincible at that point. Mistake.

We started making our way toward the flying part. I had not done any weight or balance or checked the weather. So we headed downstairs and I asked if he needed me to teach or see anything specific in which he replied no. So after getting all of my stuff together I proceeded to brief him on the weather just because I suppose.

We headed out to the airplane and he wanted me to show him a pre-flight as if he already knew how to perform one. Everything went great. He did point out some things I was unsure of in which I replied I don't know but I can get a mechanic out here. He then told me what it was. This examiner was big on the mentoring process. We both got into the airplane and he stopped me. He said there are two deferred items in this airplane which I have not seen what I need to see in order to fly. CRAP. Both of the electric trim and air conditioner were placarded and disabled. He tole me that he did not see anything about these when we went over the airworthiness documents such as annual, 100 hour, elt, etc. I started sweating. I quick looked through the binger mx records we keep with the keys when we go fly and sure enough had the mechanic sign offs for each deferral.

He wanted to start the airplane and after doing all of our px briefs, taxi brief, he started the airplane. However, just before he went to crank I saw he didn't turn on the strobes. To his defense I suppose, he had told me his old school always kept the strobes on to show a battery was left on when leaving the airplane.

So at this point i'm pretty relaxed as he is joking around and the whole day went FAR BETTER than I could have ever imagined. He starts to say the windows in the airplane are filthy. He got on me about not being on the yellow taxi lines, which I thought I was doing pretty good at.

We got down to the 22L runup area which happened to be full of airplanes. I told him I would wait here before calling ground and doing the run up. He asked why I wouldn't do the run up here. I actually thought he was trying to trick me. There were no airplanes behind us to which he replied he was not trying to trick me. So we did the run up in a abnormal location with no problems.

I said we will do a short field takeoff and then briefed emergency stuff such as engine failure on takeoff. I FORGOT to ask tower for a short delay. Dumb. Because as soon as I held the brakes for full power tower called and told the airplane behind me line up and wait. SHI*. All was fine but he got on me for now putting ailerons into the wing. I messed up, I was nervous. Fine.

He also told me, on the ground after failure, that I called out obstacle clear about 200 feet above instead of 50ft where the obstacle was. To his defense he said most of the stuff was nit picky and not failure items. I really only failed on one item.

So we head out to the Southeast Practice area and per on school we have a departure procedure to follow and points along that route. I point out the points and tell him the altitudes while I fly the airplane. He once again complains about the dirty side and windscreen. I get it I messed up and didn't clean the windows.

There are several traffic conflicts withing a relatively close proximity that we deal with and handle effectively. Which later he would tie into with the dirty windows. I understand that part.

I head out south and start my pre maneuver checklist. All is good and completed. I then setup for steep turns which will be my first teaching maneuver.

I plan to do my first to the left and then to the right I enter to the left and basically forgot that I'm judged to commercial standards. So instead of trying to reach 50 degrees of bank I'm aiming for 45 the whole time. I suppose I wasn't as strict and focused as I should have been because during the first 180 degrees of the steep turn I was waivering between 30 and 45 but altitude was withing PTS.

Going forward, I exited and rolled into the right steep turn. I have been talking and teaching the whole flight. I end up actually (honestly) losing my equilibrium and reference in direction (for whatever reason, actually was surprised) but what is more important is that I lost 200 feet of altitude. I talked my way through the whole thing and what was happening and how I was correcting and getting back to the altitude. He then proceeded to ask for the controls and showed me his steep turn. Then he said would you like to continue or head back?

I freaked out. My stomach dropped and my mood changed in an instant. I honestly was so taken back I didn't know what to do. My head dropped and asked him are you failing me?

He said he was and gave the reason why. I tried to argue and change his mine telling him I gave an instructional knowledge to this maneuver and told you what was happening and that I was correcting. He said that is correct but you still have to perform these at a commercial pilot maneuver. Well I was so taken back and so distraught that I basically stfu and stopped talking. I was beyond furious. How could this whole day have gone so good and you fail me on this and not give me at least a second chance to redeem myself.

I wish I would have continued now that I have had a day to think about it. It would have been the best thing and I recommend it to anyone who fails. However, at the time I was SOOOOO astounded and quickly depressed/angry that I wanted to throw up and throw him out of the airplane to be honest.

So I flew our arrival procedure into the airport and told him I would do a short field landing in the thousand foot mark. Approach speed in the Arrow is 75 KIAS. I was flying between 75-80. I landed 30 or so feet past the mark and said " simulating max braking".

After tying up and walking in for the debrief the begin he rattled off several things that went wrong.

There were satisfactory items and unsatisfactory items. He said I failed on the steep turns and that was it. He said the pre flight and post were a pass. He also said that there were nit picky items such as dirty windows, ceterline, and high approach speed to the short field landing. He also said he never wants to hear simulated max braking ever again. I understand the reasoning now.

Overall it was a good day. However, I've never been more crushed and depressed in my life. I just didn't handle or take the failure well. I plan to do the recheck in two weeks as he is a airline captain and has commitments. I will be more strict towards tolerances during my next check.
 
He also told me, on the ground after failure, that I called out obstacle clear about 200 feet above instead of 50ft where the obstacle was.

Lets hope he doesn't ever get any of the MPL students. Our procedure is the maintain Vx and the obstacle clearance profile until 300' AGL.

Going forward, I exited and rolled into the right steep turn. I have been talking and teaching the whole flight. I end up actually (honestly) losing my equilibrium and reference in direction (for whatever reason, actually was surprised) but what is more important is that I lost 200 feet of altitude.

While you certainly don't want to wait too long, I find it often helpful to take a momentary (2-4 seconds) pause or make a very gradual roll reversal between the turns as I too often get a little wobbly when doing steep turns.

Overall it was a good day. However, I've never been more crushed and depressed in my life. I just didn't handle or take the failure well. I plan to do the recheck in two weeks as he is a airline captain and has commitments. I will be more strict towards tolerances during my next check.

Meh, pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and get on with it. Besides, you passed the hardest part with ease. The CFI oral is a killer and sounds like you nailed that! So celebrate the oral pass and don't beat yourself up over the flight portion. In either case your liver will suffer plenty of abuse.
 
Great writeup, thanks.

Keep your chin up and drive on. Go re-test and rock it. You have the toughest part -- the one that trips up the most folks on their initial -- done, and done well, so that is a positive accomplishment.

Realize that even the best and most experienced of instructors make mistakes in execution and in demonstrating maneuvers to students. Talking and flying is much harder than just flying alone. It is an important skill as an instructor to recognize when that's happening, dial back the talking/instructing, and just fly the airplane well. I'm guessing that is something you understand well, now.

Most of all, just own the pink slip. In the grand scheme, a checkride bust isn't that big of a deal, and at future interviews take responsibility for it and learn from it.
 
How can you say you were within PTS in the steep turns if you were wavering between 30-45 degrees of bank? As a CFI candidate you shouldn't have bee surprised that he didn't "give you another chance". He's not supposed to.

Finally, you wanted to "throw him out of the airplane". You need a serious assessment of your own anger management skills if a thought like that even crossed your mind.

It's nice that you posted your experience but from the sound of it, you may not understand the role of the examiner, or, be emotionally responsible to assume the role you are being tested on.

Hopefully you aren't as emotional as your post made it seem and you can focus, relax, identify what needs to be done differently and move on.

Good luck.
 
How can you say you were within PTS in the steep turns if you were wavering between 30-45 degrees of bank? As a CFI candidate you shouldn't have bee surprised that he didn't "give you another chance". He's not supposed to.

Finally, you wanted to "throw him out of the airplane". You need a serious assessment of your own anger management skills if a thought like that even crossed your mind.

It's nice that you posted your experience but from the sound of it, you may not understand the role of the examiner, or, be emotionally responsible to assume the role you are being tested on.

Hopefully you aren't as emotional as your post made it seem and you can focus, relax, identify what needs to be done differently and move on.

Good luck.

Ha the internet is a funny place. I really didn't say that I was within PTS standards. It was a terrible steep turn no doubt about that one. I was a little surprised that he didn't let me try again or something to that effect due to how extremely well everything else went up to that point.

I'm a very mild mannered person. Doesn't quite seem that way after my post though. It was an extreme over reaction hours after the exam had ended while typing up the story. Nothing more than frustration at the time.

I have had enough time to think about the whole experience and realize writing that post the night of was as much of a venting unwind as it was a story. The part i wished i included and truly realize now is how good the examiner actually was throughout most of the day. Good guy and packed full of knowledge.
 
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Nice work, don't sweat it. I agree you can't let the fail get you down and you should swallow your pride and keep going on with it and pass as much stuff as you can so that next ride you only have to do a few things. Lots of people fail the CFI initial, no biggie.
 
BC2209, that's more like it. I wish you the best of luck. You sound like you have a good head on your shoulders and from the sound of it you will make a great CFI. I busted my CFI initial as well so I know the feeling considering how much effort it takes just to get to the checkride. Good luck.
 
Imagine yourself as a CFI with a student who busted on steep turns. What would your advice to him be?

Separate out your current emotions and think about how you will have that conversation. You won't have a life-time 100% pass rate with your students, so you're bound to have this conversation at some point.

Consider what you'd say.... then take your own advice.
 
Imagine yourself as a CFI with a student who busted on steep turns. What would your advice to him be?

Separate out your current emotions and think about how you will have that conversation. You won't have a life-time 100% pass rate with your students, so you're bound to have this conversation at some point.

Consider what you'd say.... then take your own advice.

Good stuff and makes me think. I appreciate your advice.
 
Here's my "You busted the check ride" script:

"Sorry to hear about your check ride. Take tonight off from airplanes. I want you to go do whatever it is that is fun and relaxing to you. Have a beer, see a movie, work out if that's your thing, have a marathon video game session, or go see your girl. I want you to spend tonight relaxing and not thinking about aviation. Call me tomorrow when you are ready to schedule a lesson to get you over this hump."

By the time the student calls the next day, I usually have the full story from the examiner. Prepare a lesson to address examiner-stated deficiencies. Do not sign the student off until both you and the student are confident of success. Often getting back the student's confidence is harder than fixing skill problems.
 
Good luck on the recheck! You'll get it this time! Remember, a huge majority never make it to the plane on the first attempt at CFI
 
Here's my "You busted the check ride" script:

"Sorry to hear about your check ride. Take tonight off from airplanes. I want you to go do whatever it is that is fun and relaxing to you. Have a beer, see a movie, work out if that's your thing, have a marathon video game session, or go see your girl. I want you to spend tonight relaxing and not thinking about aviation. Call me tomorrow when you are ready to schedule a lesson to get you over this hump."

Mine is usually a variant on, "go home, drink a 6-pack, and rub one out...this will all look better in the morning."
 
What was his reasoning?

Simulating max braking teaches nothing. He said that they should get the feel between normal braking action and popping tires. Basically he was saying they need to figure out the happy medium. He added that when they leave the school if all you taught them was simulated braking they'd have no good reference besides simulating in real world practical use.

I totally get it. He was big on "my instructor said" or "I was taught". He got me on this one. I had been taught to simulate max braking.

Also he busted me on clearing turns to the left first, because airplanes would be passing on the right due to right of way rules. He didn't get on me too much about it but he did say, "show me where it says that"....

I learned a lot through this failure.
 
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