FAF on an ILS at the airlines

deek said:
so then you would time once across the NDB in the above example? I would imagine no one really times ILS approaches I would guess if you loose the GS you just go around in the 121 world.
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Yep. Click the timer at the NDB. I'd time it if I had briefed the LOC approach. If for some reason, we lost the GS, I'm out of there. I'll DR to the MAP and continue the missed approach from there as necessary. That's just me though. I know guys that brief everything down to circling minimums and how many runway stripes they're going to land down the runway.

...my mind can't process all of that at once.

dasleben said:
I only care about just before the FAF. After the FAF, I don't want to hear what it is again. ;)
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Bingo. Even then, I really only want to hear if it's at minimums or better. If it's less, I don't care what it is because I'm holding or going elsewhere. Inside the marker, I'm going to take a look.

-mini
 
saxman said:
During our initial instrument training we were always taught that the final approach fix on an ILS is glideslope intercept. But when I got to my last airline, they told me this is now different. Since usually at big airports you are vectored on to the ILS much higher than than where the OM and multees cross is. And they said your FAF is where it is marked on the Jepp page, at the cross.

So which is it for you other 121 guys out there.
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There really isn't a FAF on an ILS approach. There is the beginning of the final approach segment that begins at the point where the glidelsope intercepts the published altitude.

Your last airline is correct.

If you intercept the glideslope at 8000", you are not "automatically" at the FAF or Final Approach Segment.
 
according the FAA's Instrument procedures handbook (pg 5-41)

FINAL APPROACH SEGMENT
The final approach segment for an approach with vertical
guidance or a precision approach begins where
the glide slope intercepts the minimum glide slope
intercept altitude shown on the approach chart. If ATC
authorizes a lower intercept altitude, the final
approach segment begins upon glide slope interception
at that altitude
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so you are only established on the final approach segment when crossing the glide slope intercept altitude published (or the lower altitude that ATC vectored you in at).

GSIA, is the FAF for the ILS because that is the point you are officially on the final approach segment.
 
minitour said:
Yep. Click the timer at the NDB. I'd time it if I had briefed the LOC approach. If for some reason, we lost the GS, I'm out of there. I'll DR to the MAP and continue the missed approach from there as necessary. That's just me though. I know guys that brief everything down to circling minimums and how many runway stripes they're going to land down the runway.

...my mind can't process all of that at once.
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There are any number of variations I've seen of how guys brief an approach.....some brief, some heinously long. None are inherently wrong, just some more brief than others. Sme with timing on an ILS. Some guys, if they lose the GS, they go missed. Others (I'm one) will revert to the LOC MDA if it seems feasible for where the GS loss occurred, if it doesn't then go missed. Both are fine and dandy methods.
 
minitour said:
I certainly never said nor intended to imply that they weren't. My mind just can't process all of that information. I keep it simple.

-mini
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I know you weren't, and it didn't come across that way at all.. Was just tossing 2 cents into the jar for lack of anything else to do....:)
 
minitour said:
Checkers? :confused:

Is that anything like a Steak and Shake?

-mini
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I think they're very similar. Have never seen one in AZ, but they're a burger joint that looks like a place called Rally's that used to be in the AZ area. Burgers/fries/shakes/steak sand's etc. Not too bad of a place.
 
minitour said:
They've got 'em in AZ. I've had the pleasure of eating at one down by CRQ (or is it SRQ...somewhere in Socal) and just down the road from VNY.

Dee-lish.

-mini
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I lived in AZ for 7 years. 3 of which were at a house 5 minutes from In-N-Out. :D

I've rented many an airplane out of CRQ, too. You take the CJ all the way out there?
 
dasleben said:
I've rented many an airplane out of CRQ, too. You take the CJ all the way out there?
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We took it to VNY on a lengthy trip once (FRG-LAL-HOU-SUS-GSO-SUS-PWK-PHX-PDX-LVK-VNY-LUK-ATW-PWK) but never into CRQ. I was at CRQ (Palomar?) doing a a type rating a few years back. Spent a week there and discovered In-N-Out sometime in the middle of the week. I was hooked from the first bite.

-mini
 
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