FAA warns pilots in Las Vegas vicinity on GPS

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WASHINGTON (AP) - Pilots flying at night near Las Vegas over the next week may have to navigate the old-fashioned way - without GPS.

The Federal Aviation Administration is warning that navigation systems based on GPS technology may be "unreliable or unavailable" in about a 350 mile-radius that includes Las Vegas. LightSquared - a Reston, Va., company that plans to deploy an ultra-fast nationwide wireless broadband network of 40,000 transmitters and cell towers - is field testing its equipment in Nevada southeast of Las Vegas.

The tests are part of a deal LightSquared worked out with the Federal Communications Commission. The company has rights to frequencies located very close in the electromagnetic spectrum to those used for GPS. But the company's signals will be stronger than GPS signals, raising concern that they'll jam GPS in the vicinity of LightSquared transmitters.

Pilots said they see some irony in FAA's warning given the effort expended by regulators and the airline industry to keep passengers from jamming cockpit equipment.

"Flight attendants tell you to turn off your cellphones and your Kindles and whatever else because it may interfere the plane's electronics ... and yet I got this notice from FAA that somebody is going to do exactly the same thing, which is interfere with the navigation of the airplane," said John Gadzinski, an airline captain and aviation safety consultant.

All airliners and many other kinds of planes have backup systems that don't involve GPS. Also, many planes continue to use radio signals from FAA ground stations to navigate rather than GPS. That's been the primary means of aircraft navigation for the last half century. GPS is eventually expected to almost entirely replace radio signals.

Gadzinski also questioned the choice of the Las Vegas for testing.

"It's a hugely popular airport with a lot of traffic and a lot of terrain and a lot of reliance on GPS," he said.

Jeffrey Carlyle, LightSquared's executive vice president, said the Las Vegas area was chosen because it has several types of terrain that the company was looking for, including flat land with little or no "ground clutter," suburban areas with low-rise buildings and urban areas with taller buildings.

"You want to get a sense of how the signal acts in those different environments," Carlyle said. Las Vegas has little air traffic between 11 p.m. and 5 a.m. when the testing will take place, he said.

Dick Knapinski, a spokesman for the Experimental Aircraft Association, which represents 175,000 recreational pilots, said most pilots will see the FAA notice and plan to use something other than GPS to navigate.

"It's like if you are in your car or truck and you've been relying on GPS to get someplace, but you might want to make sure you still have a map in your car and get it out," Knapinski said.
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http://www.8newsnow.com/story/14670704/faa-warns-pilots-in-las-vegas-vicinity-on-gps
 
No, you can't have direct somewhere down the road. And I have an amendment to your routing, advise when ready to copy.
 
GPS= Good Pilotage Skills...Center didn't think it was as funny as I did when I told him this on my to Elko one day.
 
Why exactly is LightSquared being allowed to do this? What genius at the FCC thought that awarding them these frequencies would be a good idea? Doesn't the DOD technically own the GPS satellite constellation?

Why don't they tell LightSquared to shove it where the sun don't shine? It isn't as if though I'm really affected by this; I have a crummy old Lowrance 2000C in my airplane, but I only use it maybe half of the time that I fly.
 
Wait, so I'd actually have to BUY a sectional to go flying out there? Psh, screw that. I'll just play FS and fly a JET.
 
Gotta love the fact FAA is all gungho about NextGen and new wireless network technology that presumably will be in wide use by the time it is enacted completely crumbles the foundation of NextGen.
 
They were doing some GPS jamming stuff west of SLC last week. This one is a 350nm area hu? I think a 12 volt battery will do about 25 miles worth so 350 miles means Autozone in Vegas must be doing well this week.
 
There is a lot of joking going on in this thread, and it frankly is upsetting. How many of us who actually fly into Vegas rely on GPS? I am one of them. Why am I upset about all the joking? Because GPS nav increases the ease of navigation, thus increasing safety. Name one transport category airplane made today that doesn't have some sort of GPS/RNAV built into it. Also, look at the cost/benefit from this technology. Do you really need a super fast internet connection for your freaking phone? No, you don't. The one you have now is fine. It's already causing accidents on the road from people txt'ing/surfing and driving.

The FAA has spent YEARS trying to make GPS a sole means of nav. They are also doing away with some of the other outdated nav sources (NDB's/LORAN). So now, this could make it so we have only one means by which to navigate IFR.

Maybe I am the minority. But I would rather have more than one good, reliable means of navigation rather than a super fast internet connection for my damn phone. It seems as if the FCC was paid off for this technology. Like someone else said, we are trying to update ATC, and with this new technology, what is that going to do to that? Will it be a bunch of money and time wasted?

Remember, there is a lot more activity dealing with "Air Commerce" than there is guys bouncing around the desert in their personal airplanes. How is this going to affect that? Time is money in aviation, and lots of it. If it takes longer, it costs more. GPS speeds everything up allowing point to point nav without having to fly to a VOR, then to the next VOR, with A LOT more precision.

I can't find the picture, but I think some will remember the difference of VOR vs GPS for a departure showing the track. GPS was a lot more precise.
 
Cessnaflyer said:
I don't think it will be something to worry about. Do you think the government will let something go so far that it hurts our defense systems? I don't think so.
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They've done worse. It would be easy to shut down cell phone service to allow the GPS service to resume with GPS service. I don't trust our government to make any good decisions. Just take one good look at our recent history.
 
mshunter said:
There is a lot of joking going on in this thread, and it frankly is upsetting. How many of us who actually fly into Vegas rely on GPS? I am one of them. Why am I upset about all the joking? Because GPS nav increases the ease of navigation, thus increasing safety. Name one transport category airplane made today that doesn't have some sort of GPS/RNAV built into it. Also, look at the cost/benefit from this technology. Do you really need a super fast internet connection for your freaking phone? No, you don't. The one you have now is fine. It's already causing accidents on the road from people txt'ing/surfing and driving.

The FAA has spent YEARS trying to make GPS a sole means of nav. They are also doing away with some of the other outdated nav sources (NDB's/LORAN). So now, this could make it so we have only one means by which to navigate IFR.

Maybe I am the minority. But I would rather have more than one good, reliable means of navigation rather than a super fast internet connection for my damn phone. It seems as if the FCC was paid off for this technology. Like someone else said, we are trying to update ATC, and with this new technology, what is that going to do to that? Will it be a bunch of money and time wasted?

Remember, there is a lot more activity dealing with "Air Commerce" than there is guys bouncing around the desert in their personal airplanes. How is this going to affect that? Time is money in aviation, and lots of it. If it takes longer, it costs more. GPS speeds everything up allowing point to point nav without having to fly to a VOR, then to the next VOR, with A LOT more precision.

I can't find the picture, but I think some will remember the difference of VOR vs GPS for a departure showing the track. GPS was a lot more precise.
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Dude, be pissed at the situation, not at the folks who are trying to inject a bit of levity into the scenario. Could it be a big deal to pilots, sure, is it the end of the world? no...that's what other navigational methods are for...hence the NOTAM.
 
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