Because after a couple of beers and looking at a little bit of porn, 18 hours is kind of a waste of resources!
FAA retools rules to keep pilots trained, refreshed
- Thread starter derg
- Start date
Because after a couple of beers and looking at a little bit of porn, 18 hours is kind of a waste of resources!
BajtheJino
I'm looking at you.
Vivid dreams? Maybe. My dreams are f'd up enough as it is so I can't really say but no nightmares. Just the dream that my teeth all start to turn to powder in my mouth leaving jagged stumps. Or the one where gravity is too strong and I can't get off the floor...
I wake up completely refreshed. A cup of strong tea or coffee later and I feel like I'm ready to tackle the day. If I ever do take it, I'll take it on the weekend to get caught up/bank sleep for the week.
Cav
Former Maddog Whisperer
Precisely how I feel about the topic. Even if I could do it legally I don't think I could do it in practice. Get rid of the 8 hour overnight (block in to block out) and give us adequate time behind the hotel door. Problem solved. Ambien is a good drug if used correctly. However like many have said it doesn't work for everyone and it surely won't fix the problems associated with 6 hours or less of actual sleep at the hotel between shifts.
Screaming_Emu
Joe Conventional
Because after a couple of beers and looking at a little bit of porn, 18 hours is kind of a waste of resources!
I like sitting on my ass, but unless its somewhere cool (which doesn't happen often) I'd rather do it at home. 30+hours in Dayton is not my idea of a good time.
granlistillo
Well-Known Member
Ditto, why not?
Most folks have 15 or 16 hours rest between work periods.
Meal requirements, "s,s and showers", getting uniform ready, call home to the family-perhaps exercise?
If I don´t get 12 hrs behind the door, I am probably not getting a full nights sleep.
Cav
Former Maddog Whisperer
Yep, give me my time off at home. We have tons of 18 plus hour overnights in random places. I find it a huge waste of time especially when I'm lucky to get 20 hours of credit in 4 days of work. Sure it's cool when it's somewhere cool but more often than not it's 20 hours in GRR by the airport...I'm sure GRR is a nice town but no thanks.
JaceTheAce
Well-Known Member
It's not like naps don't already occur in flight.
Whether or not it is "allowed" it will always happen the same frequency.
When you are tired and can't stay awake, the body will require some shut-eye in the cockpit. It'll happen no matter what.I don't agree with allowing or disallowing naps - it'll happen anyway. I'd like to see 10 hours of rest requirement in the hotel room behind the door pressed before allowing naps in the cockpit.
Matt13C
Well-Known Member
If they raised the mins for commercial flying to 1500tt even for an FO, if airlines currently have FO's on the line with sub 1500tt would they be fired? What about furloughed pilots who do not meet that criteria, could they be recalled or would that have to go fly to reach that magic number than reapply?
What will happen when the economy turns around and airlines are in need of pilots again and they cant turn to ATP for a steady stream. There are only so many banner towing jobs and CFI jobs to be had. If the SJS crowd dries up, it might become very difficult to build up the required time just to get to a freight company let alone to an airline.
What will happen when the economy turns around and airlines are in need of pilots again and they cant turn to ATP for a steady stream. There are only so many banner towing jobs and CFI jobs to be had. If the SJS crowd dries up, it might become very difficult to build up the required time just to get to a freight company let alone to an airline.
Firebird2XC
Well-Known Member
We're changing the face of our industry, boy and girls.
The FAA has listened- Congress is pushing hard, and things are going to evolve.
ALPA and others are up there as well, making sure that the input for labor and industry interest is in there. How it all evolves will take time.
As far as PAY goes.. I've spoken in favor of setting a required minimum wage, and some have spoken against the idea. Personally, I don't think we'll see it this round.
On the other hand- if we really do raise hiring and retention requirements, add that to the mix of other changes, and the long-spoken of 'pilot shortage' may actually kick in.
In Congress/FAA mandates, say, 1000 or 1500 hours to strap into an RJ, there will be a sudden whistling sound as the breeze blows through empty classrooms nationwide. Assuming we stick to that- and if we make sure it's enforced, pay will soon rise.
I see union-sponsored signs and stickers.. possibly billboards. "We're canceling flights because we're understaffed. We're understaffed because we don't pay enough to attract qualified pilots."
My current employer hates those so much it allegedly bought up all the ad space in the local hub. They work.
Change, in some form.. IS coming.
'Bout time! :beer:
The FAA has listened- Congress is pushing hard, and things are going to evolve.
ALPA and others are up there as well, making sure that the input for labor and industry interest is in there. How it all evolves will take time.
As far as PAY goes.. I've spoken in favor of setting a required minimum wage, and some have spoken against the idea. Personally, I don't think we'll see it this round.
On the other hand- if we really do raise hiring and retention requirements, add that to the mix of other changes, and the long-spoken of 'pilot shortage' may actually kick in.
In Congress/FAA mandates, say, 1000 or 1500 hours to strap into an RJ, there will be a sudden whistling sound as the breeze blows through empty classrooms nationwide. Assuming we stick to that- and if we make sure it's enforced, pay will soon rise.
I see union-sponsored signs and stickers.. possibly billboards. "We're canceling flights because we're understaffed. We're understaffed because we don't pay enough to attract qualified pilots."
My current employer hates those so much it allegedly bought up all the ad space in the local hub. They work.
Change, in some form.. IS coming.
'Bout time! :beer:
Matt13C
Well-Known Member
And that is where my concern comes in. If there truly is a shortage, that gives airlines leverage in getting the FAA and Congress to make changes in their favor again. Maybe a bridge program like they have in Europe where pilots are hired at minimum wage until they reach the mins required to crew the ship which would be even worse, in my mind, than ATPers with SJS. people would literally be jumping right into a jet, bypassing the training environment entirely.
moxiepilot
Well-Known Member
I wonder how many more companies like GA will pop up because of this and what the repercussions may be.
BillPerryCFI
Well-Known Member
The only thought I have on this whole subject is that oversight is key. People actually doing their job and holding people accountable for their shortcomings is the only way to prevent a mistake like this.
I understand that everyone needs a break once in a while, but I often ask myself the question, who is the better pilot? The guy with 4,000 hours who failed a few checkrides, and has average performance at work, or the guy with 1500 hours who has never failed an FAA ride and shows above average performance. It seems as though the cry is hours hours hours...but in thinking, experience makes wisdom, but if you don't bother to learn from the experience what good is it to just have thousands of hours? Quite frankly I'm sick of the insurance companies running the aviation industry.
I understand that everyone needs a break once in a while, but I often ask myself the question, who is the better pilot? The guy with 4,000 hours who failed a few checkrides, and has average performance at work, or the guy with 1500 hours who has never failed an FAA ride and shows above average performance. It seems as though the cry is hours hours hours...but in thinking, experience makes wisdom, but if you don't bother to learn from the experience what good is it to just have thousands of hours? Quite frankly I'm sick of the insurance companies running the aviation industry.
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Easy.
The guy at 1500 hours who shows above average performance and has never failed a checkride.
That said, when did the 4000 hour guy fail his? After having more than 1500 hours, or before?
(quite the hypo, but i like it)
LoadMasterC141
Well-Known Member
The whole failed checkrides thing still bugs and alarms me. I failed two so yes I am biased. However, I would not consider myself as lacking any ability or knowledge compared to the guy that did not at this point. Great pilots bust checkrides every day for many reasons. I have seen plenty bust simply because the examiner was due. Don't even say it does not happen.
Now a repetitive history of busting the same ride, or professional rides, sure. During initial pilot training though, there are too many other reasons why someone may have initially busted beyond natural ability.
Now a repetitive history of busting the same ride, or professional rides, sure. During initial pilot training though, there are too many other reasons why someone may have initially busted beyond natural ability.
poser765
Well-Known Member
Agree completely. Tests are just simply to subjective to be able to measure the true extent of ones skills or knowledge. They are artificial and judge nothing more than how competent someone is at taking tests.
BillPerryCFI
Well-Known Member
I will definetly agree with you on that. I understand that examiners are human and some days are just those days. The problem is the industry is focusing on those who have done it multiple times and then lied about it on applications.
Screaming_Emu
Joe Conventional
E_Dawg
Moderator
Good call. The more experience you have, the more checkrides taken, the greater the chance of a failure at some point. I also think that the notion that hours is synonymous with experience is not entirely true. Don't want to open that can of worms so I'll leave it at that.
I will say that I'd hate to see guys discouraged from getting their CFI due to the high failure rate. Checkride-discrimination (perceived or real) will tend to favor the rich kids who got their time from their parents, and never bothered to get their CFI/II/MEI.
