FAA Hiring Process Revamped

[Boydsj]

Too many CTI kids are whining because they felt entitled to the job since they spent money on the degree. A degree doesn't mean you get a guaranteed job in ANY field!

I don't feel it's a sense of entitlement, rather more of a frustration and confusion over the process (especially for people close to aging out). However, that goes for most things in life, especially when the federal government is in charge. I see this as an additional test of, "How badly do you really want it?" Yeah, the money-part isn't a good feeling for my wallet or bank accounts, but if I work hard enough and remain focused, it will all be a mute point.

 

[genot]

I'm going to mirror what Boydsi said. Its frustration on their end combined with some pretty vicious schadenfreude from everyone else. I don't feel the need to gain enjoyment from the misery of others who did the needed steps at the time to get a certain job.

Lost in all this are who actually benefits, who this is neutral for and who this hurts (and in general the people on the outside laughing at the misfortune of CTIs are getting hurt just as bad).

This is all neutral for current controllers with no desire to transfer. Who this helps are those unmarried people without children with a desire to do the job and no means to go to school.

Who does this hurt? Controllers at 9's and below. Your ERR will be likely killed when the academy rush comes in placing new hires at your desired facility. Your ERR will likely be considered after you trained the guy who washed out of your desired facility. DOD transfers. You're a GS-12? Come to the FAA. After the academy we may place you at a level 4 tower and slice your pay as a CPC in half. Married or have children? Spend a year bidding on a job with no idea where you'll end up. You only know at some point you'll end up in OKC for a time to be determined later. Congratulations, you passed the PV, now report to Maine in 3 days. Your wife and kids in California isn't our problem. Nor is the fact you have no idea where you're going to live or how you'll pay rent on two places or even how you're going to convince your spouse to leave their job.

 

[queeno]

I hate to burst every ones bubble on this but what, did you people except the FFA to keep their word!!!!......HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, remember 2006 and the White Book yea you all forgot about that butt rapeing. Well heres a little history back in the day if you went to terminal school in OKC you didnt know where you were going until graduation and than you would pick from a list based on class rank.Now at least in those days you knew what region you were going to but if you wanted KCLE and got KFSD whats the difference if you live in Cali and have to go to Bangor. Its the new price of admission, you want to be a controller you can take it or you can work at McDs your not gonna get a lot of sympathy from the old timers on this you folks are not the only ones ever screwed by the FFA. Oh and on a side note, all you CTIs that think your so qualified over OTSs, well back in the day 99% of us were OTSs even US ex military controllers had to OTS and i had the pleasure of training many of you CTIs and you were no better than any other group. Do i think that the FED is doing to the CTIs suck..........you betca i do, now my advise is reapply get hired ,check out ,and try to make managements life a liveing hell whenever you can. Good Luck to all of you its still the greatest job in the world ...warts and all.

LOVE
OG

 

[Ozelot]

[quote="queeno, post: 2219134, member: 4910"and try to make managements life a liveing hell whenever you can. [/quote]
a little off topic, my FLM got upset at me because I told him to get his puppet master (his boss and friend) off my back. This guy has admitted that he thinks its "US vs Them"..kind of childish if you ask me. There are very few good managers but most are just complete nitwits. I hear one of my old FLMs isn't making any friends out at ZNY. His parting words to me were "your an •", I responded "think i'm an •? wait tell you get to New York" ahaha.

Back on topic,
In my short career of 5 years, It seems the same percentage of people wash out from every background. It does suck the FAA is screwing with ya'll. Some of my friends at work are from CTI and when they went through the only path in was VRA or CTI and serving wasn't for them. It is what it is. When i'm training you I don't give a flying hoot where you started, as long as you can hack it I'm generally happy.

 

[TWP]

It's early so forgive me for being slow, but does this mean they will basically be hiring off the street like they used to before this whole CTI thing?

 

[genot]

Correct

 

[ATC RET 2003]

From my perspective... OTS hiring is fine and dandy.

 

[mshunter]

Any change in the age limits? You uses to have to be under 31 to start. I'd make the switch in a heart beat!

 

[7700]

I recall 30?

 

[swinte00]

I recall 30?

Unless it has changed, you have to have your FOL by the time you turn 31.

 

[spades9048]

No change to the age limit and you have to have a TOL by 31, not FOL.

 

[swinte00]

No change to the age limit and you have to have a TOL by 31, not FOL.

Thanks for clarifying. I couldn't remember which it was.

 

[Mark815]

So out of curiosity, how does one prep and apply for this? Is there a test that you can study for? I don't really have any plans to switch careers, but I still have a few years before the age rule, figure it wouldn't be a bad idea to apply when it starts.

 

[swinte00]

So out of curiosity, how does one prep and apply for this? Is there a test that you can study for? I don't really have any plans to switch careers, but I still have a few years before the age rule, figure it wouldn't be a bad idea to apply when it starts.

While some of the information MAY change with the new announcement, I wrote a post a few years ago detailing the process. I'd venture to say that most of it is still relevant. Speculation has it that the AT-SAT may change but we won't know for sure until the posting closes and people start taking the test.

http://jetcareers.com/becoming-an-air-traffic-controller.html

Good luck!

 

[genot]

To add to what Swinte said there is "the green book" by Patrick Mattson published by ASA under the title Air Traffic Control Career Prep. It contains a CD ROM version of the previous ATSAT test, but about 10 times harder for practice purposes. It also provides insight to the career from the trainee and FPL (rated controller) perspectives at Atlanta Center.

The only other difference I've heard rumor of is you won't get to pick a state or states. They'll send you to Tower, TRACON or Center class and you'll pick from a list based on class ranking.

 

[Mark815]

The only other difference I've heard rumor of is you won't get to pick a state or states. They'll send you to Tower, TRACON or Center class and you'll pick from a list based on class ranking.

I've heard that too. From the reading I've done, it sounds like the initial application when the window opens in February is literally, just an application. Basic info and that's it. I thought in order to even apply you have to take a written test.

 

[swinte00]

I've heard that too. From the reading I've done, it sounds like the initial application when the window opens in February is literally, just an application. Basic info and that's it. I thought in order to even apply you have to take a written test.

The application has always been before the AT-SAT (the test to which you're referring).

It's the score on the test that ultimately determines whether or not you continue on in the application process.

 

[Oskie305]

Ok so let me ask the Controllers who went to OKC and witnessed it all. I understand jobs aren't for everyone, but how does one "washout"? This isn't a college chemistry class or is it that difficult?

 

[spades9048]

Ok so let me ask the Controllers who went to OKC and witnessed it all. I understand jobs aren't for everyone, but how does one "washout"? This isn't a college chemistry class or is it that difficult?

There were 10 people in my class. I thought 3 of them had a very real chance of washing out. Two of them partied every night. One of them studied every night. All three of them still struggled the entire time BUT they all passed. My class was very lucky in that we only had one wash. However, I never would have expected the one that did to actually wash.

I think his nerves just got the best of him. For en route, you get just over 30% of your grade before entering the "final" evals which are three evals worth 22% each. He just completely froze on the first two evals which made him enter his final eval needing a 85 or something like that -- he got a 70 something. Some people can't control their nerves and some just can't see three dimensionally.

OKC isn't a joke, though. Looking back on the entire training process, OKC was the hardest. In terms of complexity it wasn't and they certainly don't do things the way they are done in the field. However, it's pretty intense knowing that your 15 seconds away from getting fired. You eat lunch on the main floor near the staircase. The sims are in the basement. I remember every single week laughing and having a good lunch with my friends and all of the sudden it would get quiet because we would see someone coming up the stairs in tears. It was always the same thing -- they just washed out. As funny as it seems, the evals at OKC and the evals at my facility are what got me stressed the most. Doing OJT and checkrides was cake compared to evals.

 

[swinte00]

Ok so let me ask the Controllers who went to OKC and witnessed it all. I understand jobs aren't for everyone, but how does one "washout"? This isn't a college chemistry class or is it that difficult?

Coming from someone who did in fact "wash out" it's more a matter of nerves, dotting your Is, and crossing your Ts than the actual material you cover. I felt confident that I would pass but it just wasn't in the cards for me. My PV failure post is on here somewhere if you feel like reading it.

From a terminal perspective, classes aren't THAT hard. It's your full-time job for eight hours a day, five days a week plus weekends and nights when you study. You absorb things pretty fast and it's very dry at times. There are posts all over this forum detailing wash outs and why they happened, but in most cases it's not because people didn't know the material. There was one guy in my terminal class who I was certain would fail but he managed to pass. He had meltdowns on his last several runs before the PV and miserably failed "the humbler" (those who were terminal know what I'm talking about) but made it through. It baffled a lot of us but that's just how things go sometimes.