FAA Fatigue Rules

bretthullrampage said:
Maybe this has already been addressed, but what affect will this have on staffing?
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When ALPA first proposed these new rules, they said that the Majors wouldn't see much change, and the regionals would need small increases in staffing.

If they would focus on using the staff they have more efficently they won't need a bunch of people, however this is the airlines we are talking about.

Todd should chime in shortly.
 
cmill said:
No body WANTS to do a CDO
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I do! That's all I used to bid when I flew the line, and I plan to go back to them when I return to flying. I love them. But we have very good work rules to go along with them (max of three, then min three days off, 12 day off min, etc.).

bretthullrampage said:
Maybe this has already been addressed, but what affect will this have on staffing?
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The NPRM isn't exactly the same as ALPA's proposal, so we'll have to wait until ALPA does an analysis over the coming weeks to see what the true impact would be. A quick review seems to indicate that it would cause a need for increased staffing, but there are offsets, such as the ability to do some transcon turns.
 
Going to be interesting how this is going to impact un-scheduled supplemental carriers and their 6 day long continuous reserve periods.
 
In the end this is going to come down to how many hours a day, the airlines are going to control the pilots. Currently it's up to 18 hours a day when you look at the way duty time, block time, etc are calculated.

Remember the airline still controls your time while you are on the airport bus and while you are waiting for that bus under the current rules and airlines have taken advantage of this "loophole" for years as they calculate your duty time.

If these new rules cut the time that airlines control your life down to 13 hours a day (from the current 18), then it does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that this is going to cause the airlines to have to hire at least 27% more pilots and flight attendants to fly the same planes on the same routes.

This is a good thing. It's decades overdue. Thank the 3407 families for this because the pilots could never have gotten it done on their own.

Joe
 
Just looking over this semi quickly... certainly going to need a computer to figure it all out. Those 121 regs are wacky!!! :insane:
 
JOEFRIDAY2 said:
If these new rules cut the time that airlines control your life down to 13 hours a day (from the current 18), then it does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that this is going to cause the airlines to have to hire at least 27% more pilots and flight attendants to fly the same planes on the same routes.
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Not necessarily correct; examine the increased block times within those duty periods and it becomes obvious (unless I'm missing something huge here) that significantly less pilots might be needed in many instances.
 
scooter2525 said:
Just looking over this semi quickly... certainly going to need a computer to figure it all out. Those 121 regs are wacky!!! :insane:
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Actually, this is a VERY salient point... with rolling limits, time calculations, time zones and everything based on duty time (how will you report your arrival time at the hotel?)...I don't see how the FAA can still put a share of the onus on tracking this stuff with the pilot.

MY guess is that there is some wiggle room to this offer, but darn little. I think we'll see max flight time dialed back to 9, with max duty up to 14, with further tweaks to the weekly duty limits.

Richman
 
Nick said:
Not necessarily correct; examine the increased block times within those duty periods and it becomes obvious (unless I'm missing something huge here) that significantly less pilots might be needed in many instances.
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While that may be true on a SMALL number of long mainline routes, it will be just the opposite on the regional routes.

The challenge here is going to be getting a CRJ or turboprop in late at night and out early in the morning from the non hub stations.

In order to fly the same route, it's going to require an extra crew or it's going to require that an early morning or late night flight get cancelled.

Something has to give here in order to make the mandatory 9 hour rest which will mean a real 11 clock hours between flights. That CRJ crew coming in at 11 PM won't be legal to fly until 10 AM the next day. That is several hours after the plane should have left.

When the lines are put together, it will make a big difference on those 3-6 hour crew breaks between the next flight. You will probably see those types of lines cut down. That also will require more flight crews because the airlines will no longer to be able to "spread out" a crew for 18 clock hours.

All of these new workrules are going to require more pilots and flight attendants to fly the same routes with the same planes.

All of this is safer for the passengers and the industry and it's positive for your QOL.

It's also going to be the single biggest event of this decade that will require the hiring of thousands of new pilots and flight attendants. That is why you are starting to see movement in this industry.

Joe
 
Bandit_Driver said:
Going to be interesting how this is going to impact un-scheduled supplemental carriers and their 6 day long continuous reserve periods.
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God, I'm glad this puts an end to that. Supplementals are gonna get hit hard, but then again, they've had it waaaay too easy with that steaming pile of obnoxious "rest" regulation that is subpart S for too long.

I'm just glad the FAA has finally acknowledged that flying for a Supplemntal, especially overseas, doesn't magically turn a pilot into a superhuman.
 
JOEFRIDAY2 said:
In the end this is going to come down to how many hours a day, the airlines are going to control the pilots. Currently it's up to 18 hours a day when you look at the way duty time, block time, etc are calculated.

Remember the airline still controls your time while you are on the airport bus and while you are waiting for that bus under the current rules and airlines have taken advantage of this "loophole" for years as they calculate your duty time.

If these new rules cut the time that airlines control your life down to 13 hours a day (from the current 18), then it does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that this is going to cause the airlines to have to hire at least 27% more pilots and flight attendants to fly the same planes on the same routes.

This is a good thing. It's decades overdue. Thank the 3407 families for this because the pilots could never have gotten it done on their own.

Joe
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How are you calculating 18 hours of duty? Did I miss a post?
 
wheelsup said:
iPhone app
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We're gonna need an ALPA committee at 9E. Our schedulers can't use a calculator to subtract 16 from 24 to get 8 (aka Whitlow rest). I've already had 3 fights this year that had to get escalated to a supervisor just to keep them from violating Whitlow on me. How long has THAT rule been around?

If they can't do simple math, I've got zero faith in them dealing in multiple time zones (they screw this up with our removed from IOE language OFTEN), rolling time outs and duty restrictions.
 
So why is 13 hours too much for lineholders, but those of us with the least predictable schedules on reserve can still do 16.

That aint right
 
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