FAA Fatigue Rules

Re: Proposed FAA Rest Regulations: Out Soon

Matt13C said:
Whats the other side of this? Less duty time = less pay? So a 1st year FO on reserve is likely to see how much of a wage reduction?

Will this cause regionals to hire/bring back furloughs to account for the reduction in total flight time for each pilot? Could this destroy their slim profit margin and make it beneficial for mainline to bring flying back in house?

How long until this actually becomes law?
Click to expand...

Most first year FO's on reserve don't break guarantee.

I hope this forces mainline to bring the flying back in house.
 
Re: Proposed FAA Rest Regulations: Out Soon

RPM said:
Pilots will also be given the right to decline any assignment if they feel fatigued without penalty.

... umm so now is the government going to cut me a check when I fatigue so I can still pay my mortgage or what.. because no pay is a HUGE FREAKIN PENALTY in my book..
Click to expand...

Hmm you are going below gaurantee? I dont see where you are freaking out about this. Plus you are able to use the fatigue call without fear of being fired. Try paying that mortgage after being fired for using one too many fatigue calls that are legit.... Think it doesnt happen? Oh I guarantee it isnt below companies to do such....
 
Re: Proposed FAA Rest Regulations: Out Soon

Nick said:
Noted.

However, the final proposal looks like it starts on page 124 and is labeled section 117.

The Proposed Amendment
In consideration of the foregoing, the Federal Aviation Administration proposes
to amend Chapter I of Title 14, Code of Federal Regulations, as follows:
1. Part 117 is added to read as follows:
PART 117—FLIGHT AND DUTY LIMITATIONS AND REST

It is the three tables near the end of section 117 that I understand to be what the final FAA proposal is. Everything leading up to this section looks like a [good] summary of the discussion between the airlines and crewmember reps.
Click to expand...

Noted as well. It is going to come down to the comment section on what is tweaked and what not. Hopefully that is!
 
Re: Proposed FAA Rest Regulations: Out Soon

I can tell you my company has never section 19'd someone for calling in fatigued. I work at a commuter.

I do agree about the less pay aspect. Less pay due to lower blocked days and more days at work is an issue. Here mid-seniority guys get 16-17 days off and 85-95 credit. I doubt that will continue to happen.

On reserve I have averaged 120 hours credit/month since starting in March, I can also guarantee that would not happen anymore.
 
Re: Proposed FAA Rest Regulations: Out Soon

wheelsup said:
I can tell you my company has never section 19'd someone for calling in fatigued. I work at a commuter.

I do agree about the less pay aspect. Less pay due to lower blocked days and more days at work is an issue. Here mid-seniority guys get 16-17 days off and 85-95 credit. I doubt that will continue to happen.

On reserve I have averaged 120 hours credit/month since starting in March, I can also guarantee that would not happen anymore.
Click to expand...

So more days at work for less pay unless you never break guarantee then its more days at work, for shorter duration, for the same amount of pay?

I am guessing this will make it harder to negotiate pay raises also, at least at the regional level, since airlines will be forced to hire more pilots to fly the same number of flights. We all know they wont raise fares to cover the extra costs.
 
Re: Proposed FAA Rest Regulations: Out Soon

Matt13C said:
So more days at work for less pay unless you never break guarantee then its more days at work, for shorter duration, for the same amount of pay?

I am guessing this will make it harder to negotiate pay raises also, at least at the regional level, since airlines will be forced to hire more pilots to fly the same number of flights. We all know they wont raise fares to cover the extra costs.
Click to expand...

Yeah

Some might benefit, ie two transcon turns a week for 80 hours a month. That sounds pretty sweet. Pick up a few of those and you're at 110 credit and 16 days off a month. Although the 100 block/month might interfere.
 
Re: Proposed FAA Rest Regulations: Out Soon

wheelsup said:
I can tell you my company has never section 19'd someone for calling in fatigued. I work at a commuter.

I do agree about the less pay aspect. Less pay due to lower blocked days and more days at work is an issue. Here mid-seniority guys get 16-17 days off and 85-95 credit. I doubt that will continue to happen.

On reserve I have averaged 120 hours credit/month since starting in March, I can also guarantee that would not happen anymore.
Click to expand...

I think you'll be wrong there.... It'll force a company, in your case AWAC, to build the most efficient schedules for the time you are at work. Those 3 hour sits I can almost guarantee will find a way to be gone. It should then force a place to either build more lines as well as they can, and or hire more people to fly the same amount of hours. Do you really think they will want to hire a ton more, pay 401k, health care etc or just make the schedules work? I have a feeling they will make it work.

No more than 60 hours of duty in 7 days.

No more than 190 hours of duty in 28 days.


So you can still have 4 days of 13 hour duty..... And you can still barely fly 5 hours and have a 20 hour 4 day.... I dont know about AWAC but at my company that is pretty normal for a 4 day..... So you do 4 of those as long as your duty day is on average below 11.875 you are still going to make 80 hours on block..... If you arent able to make ends meet with the little extra you will credit over that along with a company like yours trip/duty rigs perhaps one should re-evaluate other things..... Plus how many of your lines really fly you less then 5 hours a day at AWAC? I thought most of your pairings had days of roughly 5 hours or more?
 
Re: Proposed FAA Rest Regulations: Out Soon

meyers9163 said:
So you can still have 4 days of 13 hour duty..... And you can still barely fly 5 hours and have a 20 hour 4 day.... I dont know about AWAC but at my company that is pretty normal for a 4 day..... So you do 4 of those as long as your duty day is on average below 11.875 you are still going to make 80 hours on block..... If you arent able to make ends meet with the little extra you will credit over that along with a company like yours trip/duty rigs perhaps one should re-evaluate other things..... Plus how many of your lines really fly you less then 5 hours a day at AWAC? I thought most of your pairings had days of roughly 5 hours or more?
Click to expand...

All 4 of my 4-day pairings this month have a block credit between 20-25 hrs.
 
Re: Proposed FAA Rest Regulations: Out Soon

You are right we might get rid of the sits. However if the sits were inefficient, they would be gone right now. To assume the companies aren't doing everything they can to lower staffing to the lowest level is asinine.

I don't care about meeting bills every month, I like to stash a couple thousand away. That is why I work. But thanks for the "re-evaluation" lesson.

On reserve I get 25-30 hour (credit) 4-days, 35+ hour 5 days. I once had a 42 hour 6 day. I love it. I come to work to work, let me work and get paid! Line holders have less because they are all block. But like I said I flew with a mid-seniority level guy who had 17 days off and 85 hours credit.

ETA Will that change? I sure hope not. BUT if it means we are all getting true rest at night, it should. I will take more rest over more pay (as long as it makes sense) any day.
 
All I have seen was pertaining to 121, and specifically excluding 135 ops. Anyone see where they are considering adding 135 ops to this? I see the link Doc posted, but did not see where 135 might get added at a later date.
8 hours of actual sleep?!? I'll believe it when I can wipe the sleep gooies out of my eyes!
 
Itchy said:
All I have seen was pertaining to 121, and specifically excluding 135 ops. Anyone see where they are considering adding 135 ops to this? I see the link Doc posted, but did not see where 135 might get added at a later date.
Click to expand...

From the NPRM:

In addition, part 135 certificate holders should pay close attention to both this
NPRM and any final rule. This is because part 135 operations are very similar to those
conducted under part 121, particularly part 121 supplemental operations. The FAA does
not intuitively see any difference in the safety implications between the two types of
operations, although it acknowledges there may be less overall risk to the flying public in
part 135 operations than part 121 operations. Accordingly, the part 135 community
should expect to see an NPRM addressing its operations that looks very similar to, if not
exactly like, the final rule the agency anticipates issuing as part of this rulemaking
initiative.
 
seagull said:
How about if the regulation would state that all pilots have to live in their crew base? What if it created a series of very short trips with days off in between to you couldn't ever enjoy a block of time off absent vacation? What if it instated a rule that would ensure the pilot was actually resting before a trip, even on time off?

Still easy?
Click to expand...

Yep, still easy, because this is based on fatigue science. That's what matters. Aren't you supposed to be a safety guy? But now that you can read the NPRM, you can see that your alarmism is unwarranted, as expected.

Nick said:
The standup overnight is an example. It appears as if they will still be permitted.
Click to expand...

The NPRM talks extensively about CDOs. As I've always said, there is nothing unsafe about CDOs if they are done properly, and the proposed rules ensure that they are done properly.
 
No body WANTS to do a CDO, but its a necessary evil, and as Todd said, its safe. Cant grind the transportation industry to a halt because you dont wanna work overnight.
 
SpiraMirabilis said:
I liked CDOs...
Click to expand...

You are a squid with a sword, who'd really listen to you?

geico-caveman.jpg


Weirdo.
 
"I'm fine with pilots being allowed naps in cockpits, as long as we get to wear pajamas.

End 16 hour duty days. "

I know a guys at at least 2 airlines where they can wear pajamas in flight.

16 hrs are over...13 hour DD are here....

Oh, and to comment on another post, the 3 days off in a row is for international guys and applies when they return to their home base...as in they may be overseas on a 14 day trip, with days off overseas, but when they get back to base, need 3 days off in a row min before they can start another trip.

cliff
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top