FAA ATP

cadbury

Well-Known Member
I have some questions about FAA ATP requirements (ATP-CTP).

1. Query about "50 hours of flight time in the class of airplace for the rating sought"

Q1. Am I correct to say, the student must have 50hours of MEL airplane time, whilst having thousand hours of SEL airplane time prior to take the checkride for ATP (MEL)?


2. I understand that ATP-CTP is only applicable to those going for ATP Multi-Engine Airplane.

Q2i. Can the student choose to go for ATP SEL without going through ATP-CTP?

Q2ii. If a student has just completed ATP SEL, and wish to proceed to do ATP MEL, is it must for him/her to go for ATP-CTP or to resit for ATP written test (for MEL) separately?
 

cadbury

Well-Known Member
What does 14 CFR 61.153 & 156 say?
I already read.

There are reasons I have asked these questions in my previous post.

§ 61.153 said:
(e) After July 31, 2014, for an airline transport pilot certificate with an airplane category multiengine class rating or an airline transport pilot certificate obtained concurrently with an airplane type rating, receive a graduation certificate from an authorized training provider certifying completion of the airline transport pilot certification training program specified in § 61.156 before applying for the knowledge test required by paragraph (g) of this section;
You see,

Q1. I am seeking ATP SEL not MEL. Can I say, graduation certificate is not necessary?

Q2. If I have successfully obtained ATP SEL, and ready to pursue ATP MEL, can I say that graduation certificate is not necessary since graduation certificate is used for ATP knowledge test (MEL)?
 

ASpilot2be

Qbicle seat warmer
Looks like you would have to do the CTP course even if you have an ATP-SEL.

(b)Airplane category rating with a single-engine class rating. A person applying for an airline transport certificate with an airplane category and single-engine class ratingwho holds an airline transport pilot certificate with another aircraft category rating must:
(1) Meet the eligibility requirements of § 61.153 of this part;
(2) Pass a knowledge test on the aeronautical knowledge areas of § 61.155(c) of this part;
(3) Comply with the requirements in § 61.157(b) of this part, if appropriate;
(4) Meet the applicable aeronautical experience requirements of § 61.159 of this part; and
(5) Pass the practical test on the areas of operation of § 61.157(e)(1) of this part.

(c)Airplane category rating with a multiengine class rating. A person applying for an airline transport certificate with an airplane category and multiengine class ratingwho holds an airline transport certificate with another aircraft category rating must:
(1) Meet the eligibility requirements of § 61.153 of this part;
(2) After July 31, 2014, successfully complete the airline transport pilot certification training program specified in § 61.156;
(3) Pass a knowledge test for an airplane category multiengine class rating or type rating on the aeronautical knowledge areas of § 61.155(c);
(4) Comply with the requirements in § 61.157(b) of this part, if appropriate;
(5) Meet the aeronautical experience requirements of § 61.159 or § 61.160; and
(6) Pass the practical test on the areas of operation of § 61.157(e)(2) of this part.
 

CFI A&P

Exploring the world one toilet at a time.
If you arent going to answer is question, than dont bother posting. Dont be a jerk.
Ever heard the phrase that if you give a man a fish and he eats for a day, but if you teach a man to fish and he eats for life? As an instructor, I generally provide guidance on where someone can find the answer to their question rather than just doing it for them.
 

Adler

Low-Level Individual
Ever heard the phrase that if you give a man a fish and he eats for a day, but if you teach a man to fish and he eats for life? As an instructor, I generally provide guidance on where someone can find the answer to their question rather than just doing it for them.
You must be a fun person to be around.
 
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srn121

Well-Known Member
Q2i. Can the student choose to go for ATP SEL without going through ATP-CTP?

Q2ii. If a student has just completed ATP SEL, and wish to proceed to do ATP MEL, is it must for him/her to go for ATP-CTP or to resit for ATP written test (for MEL) separately?
Basically you can get the ATP SEL without the CTP, but in order to get the ATP MEL you need to do the CTP. I even looked into getting a Canadian ATP and doing the conversion, however last I looked even Canadian pilots with ATPs and a ton of 121 time would still need to do the CTP for some reason, but I haven't taken a look into it in maybe a year so maybe things have changed to something more reasonable.
 

cadbury

Well-Known Member
Looks like you would have to do the CTP course even if you have an ATP-SEL.

(b)Airplane category rating with a single-engine class rating. A person applying for an airline transport certificate with an airplane category and single-engine class ratingwho holds an airline transport pilot certificate with another aircraft category rating must:
(1) Meet the eligibility requirements of § 61.153 of this part;
(2) Pass a knowledge test on the aeronautical knowledge areas of § 61.155(c) of this part;
(3) Comply with the requirements in § 61.157(b) of this part, if appropriate;
(4) Meet the applicable aeronautical experience requirements of § 61.159 of this part; and
(5) Pass the practical test on the areas of operation of § 61.157(e)(1) of this part.

(c)Airplane category rating with a multiengine class rating. A person applying for an airline transport certificate with an airplane category and multiengine class ratingwho holds an airline transport certificate with another aircraft category rating must:
(1) Meet the eligibility requirements of § 61.153 of this part;
(2) After July 31, 2014, successfully complete the airline transport pilot certification training program specified in § 61.156;
(3) Pass a knowledge test for an airplane category multiengine class rating or type rating on the aeronautical knowledge areas of § 61.155(c);
(4) Comply with the requirements in § 61.157(b) of this part, if appropriate;
(5) Meet the aeronautical experience requirements of § 61.159 or § 61.160; and
(6) Pass the practical test on the areas of operation of § 61.157(e)(2) of this part.
Now, I believe.
 

cadbury

Well-Known Member
Basically you can get the ATP SEL without the CTP, but in order to get the ATP MEL you need to do the CTP. I even looked into getting a Canadian ATP and doing the conversion, however last I looked even Canadian pilots with ATPs and a ton of 121 time would still need to do the CTP for some reason, but I haven't taken a look into it in maybe a year so maybe things have changed to something more reasonable.
Yes! This is the reply that reassuring me and everybody in which CTP is a mandatory requirement.
 

cadbury

Well-Known Member
I have two questions

1. If a student has completed ATP-MEL, is he require to sit for ATP-SEL written?

2. Am I right that MES and MEL are different classes?

3. Is there any advantage of completing of ATP-SEL first then ATP-MEL?
 
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CFI A&P

Exploring the world one toilet at a time.
I have two questions

1. If a student has completed ATP-MEL, is he require to sit for ATP-SEL written?

2. Am I right that MES and MEL are different classes?

3. Is there any advantage of completing of ATP-SEL first then ATP-MEL?
1) Does 61.165 mention anything about a written required for SEL?

2) Yes, airplane is the category and single engine land, single engine sea, multi engine land and multi engine sea are different classes.

3) If you desire/ need the ATP-SEL, it won’t matter when you take the exam. It is a full check ride every time.
 

cadbury

Well-Known Member
1) Does 61.165 mention anything about a written required for SEL?
It is tricky and grey area.

If one has a ATP-MEL, does s/he still require to sit for ATP-SEL written even though there is ATP-SEL written specifically for pre-requisite of ATP-SEL check-ride?

3) If you desire/ need the ATP-SEL, it won’t matter when you take the exam. It is a full check ride every time.
I am not worry about check-ride.

You see, for Commercial SEL and MEL, PTS is different but oral can be excused (time saving) if one has done with either SEL or MEL. In another words, less hassle.
 

CFI A&P

Exploring the world one toilet at a time.
I agree.
ATP-SEL is useless and it is a waste of money to get a ATP-SEL.
I wouldn't say useless. There might be an Antonov AN2 out there on a 135 certificate. I've have earned money off of my ATP-SEL, so I'd say the return on investment was worth it.

You see, for Commercial SEL and MEL, PTS is different but oral can be excused (time saving) if one has done with either SEL or MEL. In another words, less hassle.
Yes, there is a table in the PTS for commercial that addresses category & class held and the required/ except tasks and subjects. No such table exists for ATP. It is a full ride, all tasks and subjects every time.
 
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