F-16 midair with small plane in SC

[knot4u]

?

That's the suspected theory. The RMP on the Legacy jet was above where the foot rest pedal is, with soft pushbuttons on both sides of the RMP unit.


The NTSB further added the following contributing factors:

Contributing to this accident was the undetected loss of functionality of the airborne collision avoidance system technology as a result of the inadvertent inactivation of the transponder on board N600XL. Further contributing to the accident was inadequate communication between ATC and the N600XL flight crew.

When was the last time you laid hands on a Legacy, for me it's been about 6 months.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

You can't just dismiss things as "unfortunate accidents" when the effort is not undertaken to avoid the accident. We have relatively cheap technology that has been around for several decades that is intentionally not being used. That is inexcusable, and two innocent civilians are dead for it.

 

[MikeD]

Yep. The military has no problem spending $200k on an ejection seat, but $50k on TCAS? Hell no! More weapons!

TCAS serves nothing for combat. The focus of these planes is combat. That's their priority for funding. It's as simple as that.

Like attack helos. The have usually just an ADF. Why? They don't fly in IMC? Why? They don't employ in IMC, they employ their weapons in VMC. Therefore, no need to waste space on IMC equipment.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

You don't know the specifics of that accident; but to sure as heck have an opinion on what the pilot did right and wrong. That's rich CC.

I actually do remember that accident. The pilot did all he could aiming for a field and punched out getting about 1.5 swings in his chute before hitting the ground. The jet impacted on a road next to the field, which was clear at the time, but sadly, the two coeds pulled out from a side street in their Vega, not having seen the jet just impact and sliding down the street towards them. That's not negligence, that's an unfortunate set of circumstances. This wasnt a case of a pilot bypassing other fields with a sick plane and bringing it over he city; his engine failure happened on final pretty instantaneously, with few places to go.

You sure have alot of answers and opinions for someone who hasn't at all ever been there or done that.

Some People have said the crew of PSA182 killed the 172 crew that THEY ran over in 1978 and failed to see, even though they called traffic in sight, then didnt clarify with ATC when they lost sight. But that wouldn't be true either. That was again, another unfortunate accident.

You just quoted me as saying "I don't know much about it." I'm not judging him, all I said was this comes with the territory. If those students appeared out of nowhere and he had no way to see that ahead of time, then I can't say I fault him.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Then keep your killing machines out of our airspace.

 

[MikeD]

]

Then keep your killing machines out of our airspace.

Do you have all the latest and greatest onboard your Mooney?

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

TCAS serves nothing for combat. The focus of these planes is combat. That's their priority for funding. It's as simple as that.

Like attack helos. The have usually just an ADF. Why? They don't fly in IMC? Why? They don't employ in IMC, they employ their weapons in VMC. Therefore, no need to waste space on IMC equipment.

Except when was the last time an F16 was engaged in "combat" in true air-to-air fashion? Until an ISIS member hijacks a Syrian F16 and takes off towards a US air base in the Middle East, you're not going in air-to-air combat. But what you are doing in the meantime is thousands of practice hours right over US soil. That's fine, but it's still a jet aircraft and like MOST jet aircraft flying over our skies in the US, they should have some sort of traffic detector/TCAS system because our skies are filled with passenger and private aircraft. I get it, not so much over the Balkans or the Iraqi dessert or Afghanistan. But the focus of these airplanes for the time being is training exercises over US soil.

 

[A Life Aloft]

Then keep your killing machines out of our airspace.

Really, you need to stop with these kinds of inane, childish comments. How many times are you going to reiterate your hatred and antagonism of the Military on here? You've stated that twice on here now.....going for a third time?

 

[knot4u]

]


Do you have all the latest and greatest onboard your Mooney?

Nope, ADS-B is expensive. TCAS is expensive. So the military needs to have these things, but it's too much too spend. Safety is Paramount.

 

[knot4u]

Except when was the last time an F16 was engaged in "combat" in true air-to-air fashion? Until an ISIS member hijacks a Syrian F16 and takes off towards a US air base in the Middle East, you're not going in air-to-air combat. But what you are doing in the meantime is thousands of practice hours right over US soil. That's fine, but it's still a jet aircraft and like MOST jet aircraft flying over our skies in the US, they should have some sort of traffic detector/TCAS system because our skies are filled with passenger and private aircraft. I get it, not so much over the Balkans or the Iraqi dessert or Afghanistan. But the focus of these airplanes for the time being is training exercises over US soil.

Are you mental?

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Are you mental?

No, but the ones doing the military budgets certainly are. Would you like me to find and point to waste? Or better yet, cut it?

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

]


Do you have all the latest and greatest onboard your Mooney?

Pretty much. I have ADS-B In already, and I'm planning on ADS-B Out when it goes in for annual in a few months.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Really, you need to stop with these kinds of inane, childish comments. How many times are you going to reiterate your hatred and antagonism of the Military on here? You've stated that twice on here now.....going for a third time?

I have no hatred for the military. I love the military! It's just way too big. I want us to have killing machines to protect ourselves. But if those killing machines are going to interact with the rest of society, as is the case with military aircraft in civilian airspace, then they need to conform to the same standards that the airliners are conforming to for public safety.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

When was the last time you laid hands on a Legacy, for me it's been about 6 months.

How's this relevant? What are you trying to say?

Fact remains the TCAS was working on the Legacy jet and at some point before the collision it wasn't. The NTSB version of the report mentioned...........

" The NTSB added that the design of the Embraer's avionics is such that the non-functioning of the TCAS that apparently occurred is shown by a small static white text message, which may not be noticeable by the flight crew. The NTSB noted:

Using only static text messages to indicate a loss of collision avoidance system functionality is not a reliable means to capture pilots' attention because these visual warnings can be easily overlooked if their attention is directed elsewhere in the flight environment. "


From my RJ days, it was in white "SBY" so I don't know if that's the case here but it certainly sounds like it. How about you add something useful instead of unhelpful posts?

 

[A Life Aloft]

But the focus of these airplanes for the time being is training exercises over US soil.

As they have safely done for decades. Have you looked at the stats and causes for incidents/accidents/ loss of life/airframes of Military aircraft over US airspace? I have. Might want to do that and get back to us. Then you might want to look at GA and Commercial incidents/accidents/loss of life/airframes for a real eye opener and compare them.

 

[Lawman]

Except when was the last time an F16 was engaged in "combat" in true air-to-air fashion? Until an ISIS member hijacks a Syrian F16 and takes off towards a US air base in the Middle East, you're not going in air-to-air combat. But what you are doing in the meantime is thousands of practice hours right over US soil. That's fine, but it's still a jet aircraft and like MOST jet aircraft flying over our skies in the US, they should have some sort of traffic detector/TCAS system because our skies are filled with passenger and private aircraft. I get it, not so much over the Balkans or the Iraqi dessert or Afghanistan. But the focus of these airplanes for the time being is training exercises over US soil.

You do realize we have fighters stationed all over the country that respond to airspace violations, accidental incursions, and occasionally straight up emergencies.

The Air Force even took the time and effort to come up with ways stealth aircraft could report and be tracked by civilian radar because hey they aren't incompetent.

You've got civilian aircraft operating with no radios because "F you other people I can." Collisions happen most frequently between light GA aircraft at uncontrolled airports. The largest single loss in aircraft resulted from two positively controlled airplanes taking off from the same runway.... But yeah... Let's bitch about a warplane not taking the time (years) and money (billions fleet wide) and losing space for combat equipment (ounces count not to mention cooling and power) because this one time it collided with a GA aircraft and suddenly that is in the news.

 

[knot4u]

Pretty much. I have ADS-B In already, and I'm planning on ADS-B Out when it goes in for annual in a few months.

I would like everyone who read my post regarding Todd and his airplane please disregard as I was not aware. Kudos @ATN_Pilot .

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

As they have safely done for decades. Have you looked at the stats and causes for incidents/accidents/ loss of life of Military aircraft over US airspace? I have. Might want to do that and get back to us. Then you might want to look at GA and Commercial incidents/accidents/loss of life for a real eye opener and compare them.

Haven't looked at the stats. I do know some eject and live while others can't or don't for the situation they were in. But what really piques/gets my attention is when a military aircraft causes civilian deaths on our soil on the ground or in air.

 

[A Life Aloft]

Haven't looked at the stats. I do know some eject and live while others can't or don't for the situation they were in. But what really piques/gets my attention is when a military aircraft causes civilian deaths on our soil on the ground or in air.

Loss of civilian life in the air or on the ground where a Military aircraft is involved, is extremely rare.

You and others are ranting for nothing, in truth. Look at the stats. And look at them for civilian and for the Military. Then compare them. You have google, do a simple search. If you can come on here and spew nonsense, then you can also use the internet to educate yourself and see the facts, truth and the stats. Or you can just continue to post ignorant comments. Seems to be the trend on here for many members in many threads, so at least you have plenty of company in that respect.

 

[knot4u]

How's this relevant? What are you trying to say?

Fact remains the TCAS was working on the Legacy jet and at some point before the collision it wasn't. The NTSB version of the report mentioned...........

" The NTSB added that the design of the Embraer's avionics is such that the non-functioning of the TCAS that apparently occurred is shown by a small static white text message, which may not be noticeable by the flight crew. The NTSB noted:

Using only static text messages to indicate a loss of collision avoidance system functionality is not a reliable means to capture pilots' attention because these visual warnings can be easily overlooked if their attention is directed elsewhere in the flight environment. "


From my RJ days, it was in white "SBY" so I don't know if that's the case here but it certainly sounds like it. How about you add something useful instead of unhelpful posts?

ERJ or CRJ, and you didn't answer my question.