F-16 midair with small plane in SC

Lawman said:
You've got civilian aircraft operating with no radios
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Which is also completely inexcusable. The FAA should have put a stop to this decades ago, but AOPA is too effective with putting money before safety, unfortunately.

because this one time it collided with a GA aircraft and suddenly that is in the news.
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I doubt you would be so dismissive if it was your loved one who was knocked out of the sky by a multi-million dollar killing machine that didn't have a $50k piece of 1980s technology that the average $300k turboprop has.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Which is also completely inexcusable. The FAA should have put a stop to this decades ago, but AOPA is too effective with putting money before safety, unfortunately.



I doubt you would be so dismissive if it was your loved one who was knocked out of the sky by a multi-million dollar killing machine that didn't have a $50k piece of 1980s technology that the average $300k turboprop has.
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But what about user fees? Safety is Paramount.
 
Lawman said:
You do realize we have fighters stationed all over the country that respond to airspace violations, accidental incursions, and occasionally straight up emergencies.
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Accidental incursions are far more frequent and a complete waste of my taxpayer dollars to send up F16s to escort them. Heck, the latest AOPA magazine had an article about a guy who was flying a GA Beech and was "bumped" by a fighter jet. I didn't even know this was allowed. Wow. Could have killed him. The GA pilot had a ADS-B TFR information but the FAA admit that this information was "incomplete" and buried somewhere at the end of a 72-page briefing was a TFR this pilot wasn't aware of. Regardless, he landed safely without killing anyone in the TFR (as HAS been the case 100% of the time, no VIP has ever lost a life due to a threat aircraft violating a TFR). But the fighter jet still bumped him and that could very well caused the aircraft to lose control. The GA pilot got his 30 day suspension and life moves on.


The Air Force even took the time and effort to come up with ways stealth aircraft could report and be tracked by civilian radar because hey they aren't incompetent.

You've got civilian aircraft operating with no radios because "F you other people I can." Collisions happen most frequently between light GA aircraft at uncontrolled airports. The largest single loss in aircraft resulted from two positively controlled airplanes taking off from the same runway.... But yeah... Let's bitch about a warplane not taking the time (years) and money (billions fleet wide) and losing space for combat equipment (ounces count not to mention cooling and power) because this one time it collided with a GA aircraft and suddenly that is in the news.
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Did you just reference Tenerife?

Difference is the civilian world takes the steps to try and fix the problem. Collisions led to traffic collision avoidance/detection systems. Even though light GA don't have TCAS II many of them have TIS or Zaon/Monroy detection systems. At least it's something extra which is a lot better than nothing.
 
A Life Aloft said:
This is extremely rare.

You are ranting for nothing, in truth. Look at the stats. And look at them for civilian and for the Military. Then compare them. You have google, do a simple search. If you can come on here and spew nonsense, then you can also use the internet to educate yourself and see the facts, truth and the stats. Or you can just continue to post ignorant comments. Seems to be the trend on here for many members in many threads, so at least you have plenty of company in that respect.
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Just because it doesn't happen much doesn't mean it can be ignored. And that's certainly no consolation to the family who just lost a father and a brother in one go (and apparently another brother and his wife in a murder the week before - holy cow talk about bad luck!)
 
knot4u said:
ERJ or CRJ, and you didn't answer my question.
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CRJ. I have zero legacy jet time. I'm going by the NTSB and Cenipa reports I've read. What have you done except for dodging questions and not contributing? You flew a Legacy jet 6 months ago, cool story bro, so what's your input?
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Just because it doesn't happen much doesn't mean it can be ignored. And that's certainly no consolation to the family who just lost a father and a brother in one go (and apparently another brother and his wife in a murder the week before - holy cow talk about bad luck!)
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Look up the stats and quit spouting about that which you have no clue of. No one is discounting or saying it is acceptable and not tragic what has happened, but neither you are anyone else on here knows how and why it happened do we? What makes you think that the Military just "ignores" these incidents? Less drama, inane comments and more facts.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
CRJ. I have zero legacy jet time. I'm going by the NTSB and Cenipa reports I've read. What have you done except for dodging questions and not contributing? You flew a Legacy jet 6 months ago, cool story bro, so what's your input?
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Dildo, I never flew a Legacy. I work on these projectiles that you strap yourself into on a regular basis. I'm a mechanic, and I hope you understand that is a symbiotic relationship, where my opinion is valid and carries as much weight as yours regarding your aircrafts airworthiness.
 
A Life Aloft said:
Look up the stats and quit spouting about that which you have no clue of. No one is discounting or saying it is acceptable and not tragic what has happened, but neither you are anyone else on here knows how and why it happened do we? What makes you think that the Military just "ignores" these incidents? Less drama, inane comments and more facts.
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What are you talking about Wolis? Where did I say this incident will be ignored by the military? IMO you're letting your emotions from that certain Lavatory thread against me show here.
 
This that's-what-they-signed-up-for attitude is precisely why I've reversed by opinion on the all-volunteer military. It's not that the all-volunteer force have failed us; it's that we as a country have failed them with attitudes such as this. At least when we had the draft it was understood that we were all in any conflict together, as a nation, from sending our sons into combat to paying higher taxes to fund the war.

Now we just sit back and say, "That's what he signed up for, so screw 'em. He shoulda rode it in."

That's it. I'm done with this thread. That whole thought process just bugs the heck out of me and unnecessarily raises my blood pressure.

Absolutely amazing.
 
knot4u said:
Dildo, I never flew a Legacy. I work on these projectiles that you strap yourself into on a regular basis. I'm a mechanic, and I hope you understand that is a symbiotic relationship, where my opinion is valid and carries as much weight as yours regarding your aircrafts airworthiness.
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Ok, fair enough but I still don't see what you are trying to say about that Legacy collision?
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
What are you talking about Wolis? Where did I say this incident will be ignored by the military? IMO you're letting your emotions from that certain Lavatory thread against me show here.
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I am not the one posting nonsense, rants and having a hissy here. You are the one who stated:

Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Just because it doesn't happen much doesn't mean it can be ignored. And that's certainly no consolation to the family who just lost a father and a brother in one go (and apparently another brother and his wife in a murder the week before - holy cow talk about bad luck!)
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Again, you have no idea what happened or the hows and whys. You bring in non-related issues that the family of the pilots in the GA aircraft are experiencing. You have not looked at the stats for GA, Commercial and Military flights and loss of civilian life in the air and on the ground. You ignore what Military pilots have been trying to explain to you. Who is the emotional one again? Who is making all the assumptions? Who is attempting to be reasonable and rational and logical on here? Here's a hint, it's not you.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
You realize that I similarly discount comments from people who dismiss the deaths of two people just because it's "rare," right?
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No one has or is doing that. Certainly you are able to read and comprehend what you read, or are you?
A Life Aloft said:
Look up the stats and quit spouting about that which you have no clue of. No one is discounting or saying it is acceptable and not tragic what has happened, but neither you are anyone else on here knows how and why it happened do we? What makes you think that the Military just "ignores" these incidents? Less drama, inane comments and more facts.
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RDoug said:
This that's-what-they-signed-up-for attitude is precisely why I've reversed by opinion on the all-volunteer military. It's not that the all-volunteer force have failed us; it's that we as a country have failed them with attitudes such as this. At least when we had the draft it was understood that we were all in any conflict together, as a nation, from sending our sons into combat to paying higher taxes to fund the war.

Now we just sit back and say, "That's what he signed up for, so screw 'em. He shoulda rode it in."

That's it. I'm done with this thread. That whole thought process just bugs the heck out of me and unnecessarily raises my blood pressure.

Absolutely amazing.
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To clarify, what I meant was that the guy who straps into a machine capable of 500+ mph with ordinances and capable of all sorts of aerobatic maneuvers has to accept a certain amount of inherent risk that comes with this operation. That's what I mean by signed up for. An Asian mother with two babies at home and her mother in-law sitting in a house didn't sign up for any risk. Yeah I get it, life sucks for some and ends far too quickly, but it doesn't change the fact that this family didn't sign up for this kind of situation. I'm not saying pilots are signing up for death when we fly, but we have to accept that this is a risky business we're in. And lives on the ground matter.

Leave the Vietnam War out of this please. And also, we're volunteer but we have to sign up for the Selective Service Registration which means males could be called up and then sent off. Did you also know that I, as a green card holder at 18, had to sign up for the selective service registration as well? How golden is that. I can't legally vote for elections but I can be sent off to die in a war. Anyway I'm a US citizen now but I always found that interesting.
 
knot4u said:
Still not sure about a convenient explanation that placed blame on the copilot putiing his feet up.
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The NTSB report didn't put the blame on him. Have you read the reports? I'm not faulting the Legacy crew too much, but I will say, they certainly could have done a better job at trying to re-establish contact a little bit sooner. They treated flying over Brazil like it was flying over Kansas. It just isn't the same. But the main fault, the primary responsibility and blame, fell on the Brazilian ATC system (as it should have been).
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
To clarify, what I meant was that the guy who straps into a machine capable of 500+ mph with ordinances and capable of all sorts of aerobatic maneuvers has to accept a certain amount of inherent risk that comes with this operation. That's what I mean by signed up for. An Asian mother with two babies at home and her mother in-law sitting in a house didn't sign up for any risk. Yeah I get it, life sucks for some and ends far too quickly, but it doesn't change the fact that this family didn't sign up for this kind of situation. I'm not saying pilots are signing up for death when we fly, but we have to accept that this is a risky business we're in. And lives on the ground matter.

Leave the Vietnam War out of this please. And also, we're volunteer but we have to sign up for the Selective Service Registration which means males could be called up and then sent off. Did you also know that I, as a green card holder at 18, had to sign up for the selective service registration as well? How golden is that. I can't legally vote for elections but I can be sent off to die in a war. Anyway I'm a US citizen now but I always found that interesting.
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Who said anything about Viet Nam? And I would suggest choosing your words carefully, to make sure they imply whatever your honest feelings are.
 
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