ExpressJet cleared

houfo

Well-Known Member
WASHINGTON — Federal officials said Friday that the airline whose passengers were stranded overnight on a Minnesota airport tarmac wasn't at fault, but they blamed another airline for refusing requests to allow the passengers to enter the airport's terminal.
Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood said an investigation by his department found that the captain of Continental Express Flight 2816 and other officials for ExpressJet, the regional air carrier that operated the flight for Continental Airlines, repeatedly pleaded to allow the passengers to deplane and enter the Rochester terminal.
There were turned down by representatives of Mesaba Airlines, who incorrectly said that the passengers couldn't be allowed inside because Transportation Security Administration personnel had left for the day, LaHood said in a statement. That was incorrect — passengers could have stayed in a separate "sterile" area, he said.
Mesaba was the only airline with staff still at the airport during the incident earlier this month.
The plane left Houston at 9:23 p.m. local time on Aug. 11, but was diverted by thunderstorms to Rochester. Passengers were kept for about six hours waiting inside the cramped plane amid wailing babies and a smelly toilet even though they were only 50 yards from a terminal.
In the morning they were allowed to deplane. They spent about two and a half hours inside the terminal before reboarding the same plane. They arrived in Minneapolis, their destination, after 11 a.m. CDT.
"We have determined that the Express Jet crew was not at fault. In fact, the flight crew repeatedly tried to get permission to deplane the passengers at the airport or obtain a bus for them," LaHood said.
"There was a complete lack of common sense here," the secretary added. "It's no wonder the flying public is so angry and frustrated."
Mesaba is a subsidiary of Northwest Airlines, which is a subsidiary of Delta Air Lines.
A spokesman for Mesaba parent Delta Air Lines Inc. did not immediately return a phone message seeking comment.
 
You get what you pay for.
(I am referring to the McDonald wages that ground personnel are paid.)

I wouldn't expect a station employee making minimum wage to have the motivation to go out of his way much or use assertiveness.
 
It's interesting to compare the facts to the conclusions we all jumped to initially isn't it? Based on these new facts, what else would you as the captain have done if anything?
 
Well, I think many of us assumed that someone on the ground that should have been helping them, wasn't.

So, this is not a surprise.

I still think a call to law enforcement and/or fire department would have been appropriate around the 1-2AM mark.

No matter what Mesaba people are saying, you can't keep that many people on a plane that size for nine hours.
 
It's interesting to compare the facts to the conclusions we all jumped to initially isn't it? Based on these new facts, what else would you as the captain have done if anything?
emergency authority and deboarded. Enlist the FO to go try every door in the terminal to find a way in or at least setup an area for the passengers to wait while calling 911.
 
It's interesting to compare the facts to the conclusions we all jumped to initially isn't it? Based on these new facts, what else would you as the captain have done if anything?

Declared an emergency or maybe taxied over to the FBO. Hell 99% of the time at those smaller airports the airlines buy the gas from the FBOs. Everyone of those passengers should have been taken care of just from a moral standpoint. In CMH if we have a long sit we sometimes walk over to Lane Aviation to relax in a more comfortable FBO atmosphere. I was talking to one of the receptionists about this deal and she said "hell you guys buy all our gas, you guys are always welcome here and if that happened we would have accommodated every one of your passengers." If the FBO was closed I would have called 911 and talked to the fire department. I would describe the situation and I would have waited for them to arrive then I would have deplaned them on the ramp.

Just saying that just because Mesaba didn't let you deplane the passengers doesn't let you off the hook in my eyes. That was just one of many options that didn't work out.
 
Lol. OOPS!

There is no problem, there was nothing Mesaba could do!
Baghda3.jpg


I know it's monday quarterbacking, but, the day I listen to the people in ops, my company or anyone elses, when it comes to the safety and well being of my passengers I'll have a tag on my toe. But anyway. Mesaba was not at fault, the expressjet infadels would in fact not listen to our plees to get them off the plane, the are surrounded by our tanks and cut off!
 
Perhaps Delta should put that station ground ops/CSA contract up for RFP.

That'll show em.

You act a fool and the TSA tells you - YOU - acted a fool - you should be gone.
 
I think this highlights the hurdles you will face as a crew in this situation.

Everyone is telling you "wait for the bus" or "no they can't get off". You need to know when to take charge and make a decision. From a technical standpoint, the crew did the "by the book" thing. But that may not have been the right decision.

The unfortunate part of this is still that if a passenger had been harmed during the captain's emergency deplaning the Mesaba minimum wage ops person would have been on the stand telling the jury "I told the captain they weren't allowed to deplane". Until every lawyer in America is executed, there's going to be a strong reason to do what the company says, even if it's stupid.
 
One other thing to consider which relates to an experience that I had while working on the ramp, is that the ramp personnel are not trained nor really authorized to handle other airlines equipment. At BGR we serviced Comair, ASA, Pinnacle, Mesaba, and XJT airplanes. One night (March 16 2007) a CAL mainline 737 diverted from BOS. As the agent with the most seniority I got in a steaming pile of poo for unloading the luggage from that flight, and helping the passengers with accommodations etc. even though we handled all the COex flights to BGR solely because it was a mainline flight. I did not work at Comair within three weeks of that event (I had to use all my sick time first) even though someone else from the station won a company award for being a sleezebag that night. Not that I'm trying to justify the agents actions, but after working the ramp in situations like that before, I can easily see what their thought process was that night.
 
I think this highlights the hurdles you will face as a crew in this situation.

Everyone is telling you "wait for the bus" or "no they can't get off". You need to know when to take charge and make a decision. From a technical standpoint, the crew did the "by the book" thing. But that may not have been the right decision.

The unfortunate part of this is still that if a passenger had been harmed during the captain's emergency deplaning the Mesaba minimum wage ops person would have been on the stand telling the jury "I told the captain they weren't allowed to deplane". Until every lawyer in America is executed, there's going to be a strong reason to do what the company says, even if it's stupid.
In your signature, shouldn't that be a verb? Act of landing? Been a long long time since I did any grammar stuff.

As far as being injured I agree, he would have been sued. I would like to think his/her name would get dropped (which as I understand often does) during the "class action lawsuit" because they find the deep pockets elsewhere.

Wasn't there, don't know crap about that plane, can't make the decision for him/her, but I know on the Saab it isn't a big deal to deplane. Be even better if it was a Beech 1900. Beech 1900's for all!
 
In your signature, shouldn't that be a verb? Act of landing? Been a long long time since I did any grammar stuff.

As far as being injured I agree, he would have been sued. I would like to think his/her name would get dropped (which as I understand often does) during the "class action lawsuit" because they find the deep pockets elsewhere.

Wasn't there, don't know crap about that plane, can't make the decision for him/her, but I know on the Saab it isn't a big deal to deplane. Be even better if it was a Beech 1900. Beech 1900's for all!

That's why you wait till the fire department arrives to deplane. Also what do you do if someone gets injured or harmed while sitting on the plane for numerous hours with no real PIC or anyone in any legal managing role (considering everyone had timed out.) As soon as I was approaching my "drop dead" time I would have had everyone out. Like Clocks said, Its a good lesson on when you have to put your foot down and say enoughs enough and get the people off.

We had an incident happen recently where they dispatched a plane with a jet bridge door to LGA on the Delta side. The special door has no stairs and neither does Delta apparently. Dispatch screwed up and missed the memo about not dispatching planes with no stairs to LGA on the Delta side. Airways would not take our flight and all of the Delta birdges were full. They eventually got a bunch of supervisors from each company involved and deplaned everyone on the fueling trucks step ladder. :eek:
 
That's why you wait till the fire department arrives to deplane. Also what do you do if someone gets injured or harmed while sitting on the plane for numerous hours with no real PIC or anyone in any legal managing role (considering everyone had timed out.) As soon as I was approaching my "drop dead" time I would have had everyone out. Like Clocks said, Its a good lesson on when you have to put your foot down and say enoughs enough and get the people off.

We had an incident happen recently where they dispatched a plane with a jet bridge door to LGA on the Delta side. The special door has no stairs and neither does Delta apparently. Dispatch screwed up and missed the memo about not dispatching planes with no stairs to LGA on the Delta side. Airways would not take our flight and all of the Delta birdges were full. They eventually got a bunch of supervisors from each company involved and deplaned everyone on the fueling trucks step ladder. :eek:
*shrug*

I have my own stairs. Anyway, like I said, 1900's for all.
 
Mesaba is a subsidiary of Northwest Airlines, which is a subsidiary of Delta Air Lines.
A spokesman for Mesaba parent Delta Air Lines Inc. did not immediately return a phone message seeking comment.

Great, so I guess it's Delta's fault after all!
 
A regional disptacher pleads with a representative from Delta Connection for help getting passengers off an ExpressJet airliner that sat on a Rochester, Minn., runway for about six hours overnight.

Yeah, since airplanes just sit right on the runway while landing traffic can't land because you're in their way.

Gotta love the media.
 
I still think it's Alchemy's fault. That guy wrecks everything.
 
Perhaps Delta should put that station ground ops/CSA contract up for RFP.

That'll show em.

You act a fool and the TSA tells you - YOU - acted a fool - you should be gone.

They did thats why its Mesaba. It was NWA until about 2 years ago. same people just rehired....:(
 
So they blame Mesaba, but from this it sounds like Mesaba's Rochester CSA manager tried to help out as much as he could while dealing with his own IROP issues which come first before lending assistance to another carrrier. They stated that TSA was there and that the terminal was open. Sounds like the DOT needs to lay off the crack pipe. Continental is the 1# cuplprit since it's their resposibility to handle IROPs not Expressjet or Mesaba.
 
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