Exemption rule for 3rd class medicals

[Inverted25]

The difference being is that when they get caught now, which is what the medical is there for, they face certificate revokation, and fines that are much eaiser to enforce, and the issues are brought to their attention rather than them having to figure it out.

I see your point. I don't agree with it, but I see it. I recently did a flight review for a guy who was a German licensed/FAA licensed pilot. He had his forien medical, and a us medical. He was blown away by how easy it was for him to get a US medical. After talking to him about the procedure to get his German medical, I thought about it for a while, and the process wasn't that difficult. But, he was required to submit paper work, and actually perform tests to get his foriegn medical.

I don't see where we have an issue with costly bureaucratic nonsense for medical certification in the US. Flying isn't a cheap hobby. It's quite the opposite. And if a $200 medical every few years is going to prevent someone from be able to afford to fly, do you honestly think they are going to be able to afford it anyways? I mean, thats the cost of an average 1hr lesson. And medical doesn't even cost $200 in most places.

where are you paying 200? I got a first class for 90 here

 

[rframe]

I don't see where we have an issue with costly bureaucratic nonsense for medical certification in the US. Flying isn't a cheap hobby. It's quite the opposite. And if a $200 medical every few years is going to prevent someone from be able to afford to fly, do you honestly think they are going to be able to afford it anyways? I mean, thats the cost of an average 1hr lesson. And medical doesn't even cost $200 in most places.

Oh I wasn't talking about the end-user fees. I'm talking about the administrative overhead required at the FAA AeroMedical Certification branch to support the processing for 3rd class certificate holders, recording certificates and processing various deferrals and waivers: there are a lot of people sitting around filing paperwork....spending tax payer dollars processing paperwork so that some rich middle-aged guy who's willing to drop $5,000 per year on extra medical documentation can keep his 3rd class.

 

[Okie_Pilot]

I don't think some of you guys read the letter, and if you did, you missed the part that read:

The exemption would be allowed for use in certain sized aircraft and particular types of operations: for example, a single-engine aircraft with 180 horsepower or less, four seats or fewer, and fixed gear, with operations limited to day VFR flight with one passenger, and not be for hire or fly in furtherance of a business. Through this exemption, if issued as requested, any pilot holding a student, recreational, private, commercial, or ATP certificate would have the option of operating under this exemption when flying recreationally.

180hp or less. 4 seats or less. 1 passenger only. Daytime VFR and not for hire or furtherance of a business.


We're not talking about King Airs and Citation Mustangs here guys.


I know of a guy who has 13,000+ hours of crop dusting experience, aerobatic competition flying, flying with goggles and being shot at, flying crop dusters to radial engines to twin turbine fast movers, and being a CFI.

But is he allowed to go out and fly his Cessna around the patch on the weekend? Nope, because he has cancer. And the FAA thinks if you have cancer that you will just suddenly DIE with no warning signs or anything. You'll just drop dead at the controls of the airplane.

But the 350 pound guy with diabetes and bad vision driving the 24,000 pound semi down the freeway at 75mph next to you and me is just perfectly A-OK.

 

[Mike H]

What correlation is there between flying ability and ability to pass a medical? I don't care if you are god's gift to pilotkind, if a doctor says your heart is about to explode, it probably is about to explode.

Yet there are plenty of cases where the doc says someone's heart is just fine and they have a heart attack a few hours later. The point is that a medical certificate guarantees nothing whatsoever. And there is no proof- or even any actual evidence- that the medical certificate has the slightest thing to do with safety.

Maybe we should get rid of the whole pilot certification process...

Has that been suggested? Straw men fall apart pretty easily.

I would love to see the process to get a driver's license become much more like the process to get a pilot's license, including medical certification.

Really? That's stunningly horrifying.

Those of you that have had to try to convince mom/dad or gma/gpa that they should not be driving anymore know why.

1. The notion that older folks are dangerous drivers is nonsense, and just isn't backed up by statistics.
2. You should give people smarter than you credit for being smarter than you. Older drivers know better than anyone when it's time to quit driving, and they invaribly make that decision appropriately. Pilots are even better at making that decision

Sweden has the right idea...

Maybe you'd be happier in Sweden then.

 

[mshunter]

where are you paying 200? I got a first class for 90 here

It was a figure of speach. But I do know of a guy who charges $400 for a first class, because he can. There is no one else around who can do a 1st class.

BTW, last time I got a 1st class, with my "frequent flyer" discount, it cost me $75.

 

[tprops4me]

When was tha last time you were sitting in the back yard of your house, in the middle of a city, and watched a glider fly over your house on an instrument approach into the local airport, or practice maneuvers over you house. When it comes to wingspan, yeah, a G103 has a V35 beat. When it comes to amount of energy depleated as it runs into something, I'll take a glider crashing through my roof 100x morer than I would some rich guy in his Baron, with an expired medical, because he knew he wouldn't pass it, an expired flight review, because why bother with that if I can't get a medical, and screw my instrument currency. If I don't need a medical then why do a flight review, and what do I need to be instrument proficent for as well.

I can see your cause for concern, but you have to look at it on the macro scale. The proposed rule would not include transport sized aircraft. We are not talking about jets, or t-props. We are talking about people that are not professional pilots. If it is a passenger type operation, I am sure the companies' insurance would require a medical.
If it is a guy going to grab breakfast in his RV, there is no need for it. The example of a flight review is not a good one. Someone will die more often from lack of skill, than from a massive chest grabber.
I have seen the mention of dying on the instrument approach mentioned in a couple posts now. You have to understand that there is a large percentage of pilots that are just fine with enjoying daytime VFR. Not everyone has an instrument rating, and therefore will not fall on your house while shooting the approach. I would be more worried about that flight school single engine trainer with the engine past TBO, because the flight school can't afford to replace it. That is more likely to land in your swimming pool than a pilot without a third class medical.
The example of maintaining instrument proficiency is just a bit dramatic. Don't you think? I think we can all agree that it is a perishable skill.

 

[mshunter]

I can see your cause for concern, but you have to look at it on the macro scale. The proposed rule would not include transport sized aircraft. We are not talking about jets, or t-props. We are talking about people that are not professional pilots. If it is a passenger type operation, I am sure the companies' insurance would require a medical.
If it is a guy going to grab breakfast in his RV, there is no need for it. The example of a flight review is not a good one. Someone will die more often from lack of skill, than from a massive chest grabber.
I have seen the mention of dying on the instrument approach mentioned in a couple posts now. You have to understand that there is a large percentage of pilots that are just fine with enjoying daytime VFR. Not everyone has an instrument rating, and therefore will not fall on your house while shooting the approach. I would be more worried about that flight school single engine trainer with the engine past TBO, because the flight school can't afford to replace it. That is more likely to land in your swimming pool than a pilot without a third class medical.
The example of maintaining instrument proficiency is just a bit dramatic. Don't you think? I think we can all agree that it is a perishable skill.

Regulations are written in blood.

 

[Mike H]

Regulations are written in blood.

some are, most aren't

 

[Nihon_Ni]

Hold on a second. Take a step back and look at what you just put there. Ballons, remove it from the mix. Not exactly a whole bunch of them floating around now is there. And it's not going to go out of control if the pilot dies. Gliders, same, almost. Not exactly a whole bunch of them flying around. Sport pilots, relatively new to the mix, and not enough data out there to support the argument.

I personally think it's a crazy idea to get rid of the 3rd calss. Personally, I think our medical testing requirments need to be more in line with what you have to go through to get an ICAO 1st class. Not just "Sign here, here, here, can you see the open end of the circle, lets listen to your heart. Here is your certificate."

3rd class is pretty much sticking a mirrior under your nose, and seeing if you can fog it. It's a joke. I've known more than a few who have medical issues that would be grounding that still fly, WITH a 3rd class medical, because they don't report. Remember, regulations are written in blood. There is a reason why we have to have a valid medical to fly.

This is a bit of a circular argument. If the "3rd class is pretty much sticking a mirrior under your nose, and seeing if you can fog it" then why do you "think it's a crazIy idea to get rid of the 3rd calss"?

The current FAA medical system relies on self reporting. If pilots don't have frank conversations with their doctors and answer questions honestly, there's little that additional regulating could add to the situation for those intent on avoiding it. Similar to sport pilots, this rule won't change the medical conditions required for flight, it simply changes the documentation process. The current system already relies on daily self-certification, but the FAA provides little information and training on how they expect pilots to self certify. At least this rule would be a step in the direction of training.

 

[mshunter]

This is a bit of a circular argument. If the "3rd class is pretty much sticking a mirrior under your nose, and seeing if you can fog it" then why do you "think it's a crazIy idea to get rid of the 3rd calss"?

The current FAA medical system relies on self reporting. If pilots don't have frank conversations with their doctors and answer questions honestly, there's little that additional regulating could add to the situation for those intent on avoiding it. Similar to sport pilots, this rule won't change the medical conditions required for flight, it simply changes the documentation process. The current system already relies on daily self-certification, but the FAA provides little information and training on how they expect pilots to self certify. At least this rule would be a step in the direction of training.

Out of context. Read the whole post. I think the third class is to easy to get.

 

[Apophis]

And a blimp is even bigger than a glider!

Exercising the privileges of a Lighter-Than-Air Airship category and class rating requires at least a third class medical certificate. No exemption exists as it does for glider/balloon pilots.

 

[exneophyte]

Oh I wasn't talking about the end-user fees. I'm talking about the administrative overhead required at the FAA AeroMedical Certification branch to support the processing for 3rd class certificate holders, recording certificates and processing various deferrals and waivers: there are a lot of people sitting around filing paperwork....spending tax payer dollars processing paperwork so that some rich middle-aged guy who's willing to drop $5,000 per year on extra medical documentation can keep his 3rd class.

Rich middle aged guy here - actually I'm not rich and I'm 27, I just want to fly so I make the extra medical documentation cost work for my third class. It isn't quite $5000 per year though. Don't golf, don't own a boat, don't hunt, don't buy new cars, and don't go to the bar every weekend. Personally, I say get rid of sport and third class and have a two class system. A medical for flying for compensation and a medical for not flying for compensation class system.