Exemption rule for 3rd class medicals

rframe

rframe

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I know the idea of eliminating 3rd class medicals has come up on this forum a few times and many feel it's a good idea, with a few reservations....

The AOPA and EAA have proposed an exemption process for 3rd class medicals which involves a recurring self-assessment education program and requires a valid driver's license as a baseline.

They are requesting comments from the public at this time: http://www.eaa.org/news/2012/2012-03-29_exemption.pdf
 
I don't have any reservations about it at all- they should not only dump the 3rd class medical, they should dump the 2nd class along with it. And the 1st Class should only be required for part 121 & 135 turbojet operations.
 
Mike H said:
I don't have any reservations about it at all- they should not only dump the 3rd class medical, they should dump the 2nd class along with it. And the 1st Class should only be required for part 121 & 135 turbojet operations.
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I agree for the most part, the medical cert system needs to be way simplified and with older dudes with a 2nd class still falling over isn't sort of silly if they don't weed out these King Airs crashing when these 65-80 some year olds are single pilot.
 
I also think that it is a great idea. It is working just fine for Glider, Balloon, and Sport pilots so why not get rid of it all together. AME's will probably take a business hit and the standard way for an airplane student to get a student pilot certificate a little bit different, but I have been waiting for this for a long time. My dad got his Private ASEL 30 some years ago but hasn't held a medical in 25 years. He has been actively flying gliders and is now a CFI-G and can still fly a Cessna 172 better than 99% of the people I fly with. I give him his FR's in airplanes because I don't have a CFI-G (yet) and he likes to fly the airplane every once in a while anyway.
 
Make sure you guys submit a comment if you feel this is a move in the right direction.

Comments may be filed online by going to www.regulations.gov​
Enter FAA-2012-0350 in "Simple Search". ​
Then simply click on the "Comment/Submissions" button to enter formal comments. ​
 
tlewis95 said:
I also think that it is a great idea. It is working just fine for Glider, Balloon, and Sport pilots so why not get rid of it all together. AME's will probably take a business hit and the standard way for an airplane student to get a student pilot certificate a little bit different, but I have been waiting for this for a long time. My dad got his Private ASEL 30 some years ago but hasn't held a medical in 25 years. He has been actively flying gliders and is now a CFI-G and can still fly a Cessna 172 better than 99% of the people I fly with. I give him his FR's in airplanes because I don't have a CFI-G (yet) and he likes to fly the airplane every once in a while anyway.
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we got a few guys in our glider club who stopped flying power because they knew they couldn't pass a medical but can fly circles around most guys who can
 
Inverted25 said:
we got a few guys in our glider club who stopped flying power because they knew they couldn't pass a medical but can fly circles around most guys who can
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Our two schedule is often times "subject to medicals being passed"

Don't think I am likely to give up flying power aircraft in my lifetime, but if I am worried about the medical, will just start inviting a youngster along that needs hours.
 
drunkenbeagle said:
Our two schedule is often times "subject to medicals being passed"

Don't think I am likely to give up flying power aircraft in my lifetime, but if I am worried about the medical, will just start inviting a youngster along that needs hours.
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I fly with a guy now who is in his 70s and he does the angel flights but is over their age limit. So I go along as the PIC so he can keep helping those in needs.
 
tlewis95 said:
I also think that it is a great idea. It is working just fine for Glider, Balloon, and Sport pilots so why not get rid of it all together. AME's will probably take a business hit and the standard way for an airplane student to get a student pilot certificate a little bit different, but I have been waiting for this for a long time. My dad got his Private ASEL 30 some years ago but hasn't held a medical in 25 years. He has been actively flying gliders and is now a CFI-G and can still fly a Cessna 172 better than 99% of the people I fly with. I give him his FR's in airplanes because I don't have a CFI-G (yet) and he likes to fly the airplane every once in a while anyway.
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Hold on a second. Take a step back and look at what you just put there. Ballons, remove it from the mix. Not exactly a whole bunch of them floating around now is there. And it's not going to go out of control if the pilot dies. Gliders, same, almost. Not exactly a whole bunch of them flying around. Sport pilots, relatively new to the mix, and not enough data out there to support the argument.

I personally think it's a crazy idea to get rid of the 3rd calss. Personally, I think our medical testing requirments need to be more in line with what you have to go through to get an ICAO 1st class. Not just "Sign here, here, here, can you see the open end of the circle, lets listen to your heart. Here is your certificate."

3rd class is pretty much sticking a mirrior under your nose, and seeing if you can fog it. It's a joke. I've known more than a few who have medical issues that would be grounding that still fly, WITH a 3rd class medical, because they don't report. Remember, regulations are written in blood. There is a reason why we have to have a valid medical to fly.
 
If you all are going to use the argument that self assessment and a drivers license is enough of a check and balance for flying, please move to Florida and drive there for about 2 months. There are plenty of people who cannot accurately assess their capacities both physically and as pilots (or in this example, driving / operating heavy machinery).

While we're at it why don't we also suspend the bi-annual flight review, take off and landings within the preceding 90 days for pax carrying, and instrument currency?

Sorry, but you all in support of eliminating a crappy balance is at least some sort of balance to regulate those who I share airspace.
 
3rd class could be eliminated for recreational flying, now for flying any type of commercial operation a medical must be approved.........
 
moxiepilot said:
If you all are going to use the argument that self assessment and a drivers license is enough of a check and balance for flying, please move to Florida and drive there for about 2 months. There are plenty of people who cannot accurately assess their capacities both physically and as pilots (or in this example, driving / operating heavy machinery).

While we're at it why don't we also suspend the bi-annual flight review, take off and landings within the preceding 90 days for pax carrying, and instrument currency?

Sorry, but you all in support of eliminating a crappy balance is at least some sort of balance to regulate those who I share airspace.
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lots of red herrings there

look at it from the point of view that, if the medical certificate did not exist at all, what arguments could you make to support requiring it? There aren't many valid arguments- if any.

First, medical incapacitation as a cause of aircraft accidents/incidents is statistically insignificant, and in the few cases that do occur, nearly all are linked to illicit drug use, and, in fact, ALL of them possessed a valid medical certificate at the time. In the well publicized case where the King Air pilot died at the controls and his PPL, SEL rated (but way out of currency and without a current medical) passenger landed the airplane safely, that pilot had renewed his 2nd class medical only a few days earlier, so the argument that the medical certificate guarantees anything is entirely invalid.

If you want to make a case for regulating bad judgement, go ahead, but just be sure to say exactly how a medical certificate guarantees good judgement. Here's a hint: it has nothing to do with judgement.
 
mshunter said:
Hold on a second. Take a step back and look at what you just put there. Ballons, remove it from the mix. Not exactly a whole bunch of them floating around now is there. And it's not going to go out of control if the pilot dies. Gliders, same, almost. Not exactly a whole bunch of them flying around. Sport pilots, relatively new to the mix, and not enough data out there to support the argument.

I personally think it's a crazy idea to get rid of the 3rd calss. Personally, I think our medical testing requirments need to be more in line with what you have to go through to get an ICAO 1st class. Not just "Sign here, here, here, can you see the open end of the circle, lets listen to your heart. Here is your certificate."

3rd class is pretty much sticking a mirrior under your nose, and seeing if you can fog it. It's a joke. I've known more than a few who have medical issues that would be grounding that still fly, WITH a 3rd class medical, because they don't report. Remember, regulations are written in blood. There is a reason why we have to have a valid medical to fly.
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there are a lot of gliders around. My club does well over 1000 tows a year and we are one of six in Ohio. Also it will certainly go out of control if you die at the controls. On top of that our two seat gliders are bigger then your average GA plane so don't try to write off gliders as a bad example.
 
But gliders don't fly at night, IFR or 300+ miles at 180kts either......... Not sure I care too much about the status of the 3rd class medical as much as stopping old people fromndriving!
 
Inverted25 said:
there are a lot of gliders around. My club does well over 1000 tows a year and we are one of six in Ohio. Also it will certainly go out of control if you die at the controls. On top of that our two seat gliders are bigger then your average GA plane so don't try to write off gliders as a bad example.
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When was tha last time you were sitting in the back yard of your house, in the middle of a city, and watched a glider fly over your house on an instrument approach into the local airport, or practice maneuvers over you house. When it comes to wingspan, yeah, a G103 has a V35 beat. When it comes to amount of energy depleated as it runs into something, I'll take a glider crashing through my roof 100x morer than I would some rich guy in his Baron, with an expired medical, because he knew he wouldn't pass it, an expired flight review, because why bother with that if I can't get a medical, and screw my instrument currency. If I don't need a medical then why do a flight review, and what do I need to be instrument proficent for as well.

See my train of though now?

If you plan on taking up a passenger, you should be required to have a medical. If you plan on flying over a pouplated area, you should have a medical. If you want to get towed up to 3k and pull the handle, all by yourself, then go do it, and don't worry about a medical. But, the fact that AOPA is trying to eliminate the 3rd class medical all together is ludicrous.

There is a reason why there isn't more medical related accidents in the US. BECAUSE WE HAVE A SYSTEM TO PREVENT IT. If we didn't, I am willing to bet there would be far more mishaps than there currently is. Imagine the guys trying to fly that are nearly blind, or have heart conditions, or, or, or.... It needs to be revised. And I don't think it should be easier to get one either.
 
As of right now you can fly any size aircraft with a third class medical provided it is not a commercial operation. That means private jet and tprop owners would be flying without a medical if the third class was axed. I don't see that as a good thing.
 
mshunter said:
Imagine the guys trying to fly that are nearly blind, or have heart conditions, or, or, or.... It needs to be revised. And I don't think it should be easier to get one either.
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No, there is nothing preventing someone who doesn't have a medical from flying right now. I have never once seen a guard at an airport gate carding the old lunatics who want to go fly to make sure they have a valid medical....you see it's already an honor system. The AOPA/EAA proposal is just removing a lot of costly bureaucratic nonsense.

The new proposal says there are health conditions that make it illegal to fly, it does an even better job of educating pilots on health issues so they can understand what may be an issue and why it may be an issue and tells them to ground themselves if needed. History has shown pilots self-ground quite readily. In cases where they wont, asking them to have a piece of paper provides zero further protection to the public.
 
Haven't read the NPRM, and don't really have an answer to this, nor have chosen sides, but I've got a couple of counterpoints:

Inverted25 said:
we got a few guys in our glider club who stopped flying power because they knew they couldn't pass a medical but can fly circles around most guys who can
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What correlation is there between flying ability and ability to pass a medical? I don't care if you are god's gift to pilotkind, if a doctor says your heart is about to explode, it probably is about to explode.

Mike H said:
First, medical incapacitation as a cause of aircraft accidents/incidents is statistically insignificant, and in the few cases that do occur, nearly all are linked to illicit drug use, ...
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Wouldn't this imply that the current medical certification system is working?

Mike H said:
...and, in fact, ALL of them possessed a valid medical certificate at the time.
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and a valid pilot's license. Maybe we should get rid of the whole pilot certification process...


moxiepilot said:
If you all are going to use the argument that self assessment and a drivers license is enough of a check and balance for flying, please move to Florida and drive there for about 2 months. There are plenty of people who cannot accurately assess their capacities both physically and as pilots (or in this example, driving / operating heavy machinery).
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I would love to see the process to get a driver's license become much more like the process to get a pilot's license, including medical certification. Those of you that have had to try to convince mom/dad or gma/gpa that they should not be driving anymore know why.

Sweden has the right idea: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driving_licence_in_Sweden

Inverted25 said:
On top of that our two seat gliders are bigger then your average GA plane so don't try to write off gliders as a bad example.
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And a blimp is even bigger than a glider!
 
rframe said:
The new proposal says there are health conditions that make it illegal to fly, it does an even better job of educating pilots on health issues so they can understand what may be an issue and why it may be an issue and tells them to ground themselves if needed. History has shown pilots self-ground quite readily. In cases where they wont, asking them to have a piece of paper provides zero further protection to the public.
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The difference being is that when they get caught now, which is what the medical is there for, they face certificate revokation, and fines that are much eaiser to enforce, and the issues are brought to their attention rather than them having to figure it out.

I see your point. I don't agree with it, but I see it. I recently did a flight review for a guy who was a German licensed/FAA licensed pilot. He had his forien medical, and a us medical. He was blown away by how easy it was for him to get a US medical. After talking to him about the procedure to get his German medical, I thought about it for a while, and the process wasn't that difficult. But, he was required to submit paper work, and actually perform tests to get his foriegn medical.

I don't see where we have an issue with costly bureaucratic nonsense for medical certification in the US. Flying isn't a cheap hobby. It's quite the opposite. And if a $200 medical every few years is going to prevent someone from be able to afford to fly, do you honestly think they are going to be able to afford it anyways? I mean, thats the cost of an average 1hr lesson. And medical doesn't even cost $200 in most places.
 
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