Everything I've wanted to know about ATC. (But have been to afraid to ask.)

queeno said:
the A-10 guys at RAF Bentwaters had a trick they would use when the RVRs were low during the morning sortie launch. the pilot with the lowest RVR take off mins would park the AC next to the RVR sensor and run up the motors till the RVR came up , we would then launch all the Hi Min guys than after they went the low min guy would launch .this was done with the full approval of the SOF. worked like a charm boy i miss the good old days but i wouldnt try it with todays anul USAF.
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Glad I am not the only one who has seen this.
 
cmill said:
Theres certain things that ive wondered if I over think or if the guy on the other end, is really doing me a solid, or vice versa.

For example: Can you guys tell if a plane is BS'ing mins? Do you hear a familiar call sign and give them "special treatment," as in letting them do things that you normally wouldn't let another aircraft do?

I guess in short, is there a sense that "this guy knows what he's doing, and we'll give him more leeway?"
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1) Yes. I don't care, I'm not strapped to the airplane and I'm not the sky police.

2) To an extent, yes. If we know you're not going to RA all over the place and not respond with "blocked" to every instruction, I'll be more than happy to shoot you through the various fish barrels in my airspace. If you're a tie and I know you're the guy who cancels 10 miles out, you're first. If you are tied altitudes and one gets to go up/down first while the other gets pinned and I know you fly your airplane like it is an airplane instead of a kite, you win.

3) Bottom line, the are companies and pilots (and even airframes)who do things/behave in a certain way. When all I do all day is break three/four way ties - you pick the one who is going to get out of dodge over the one who won't. It's the "expeditious" part of "safe, orderly, and expeditious."
 
What do you see when I ident? Confetti? Flashing lights? Hear a Journey song?

or...does my callsign just blink on your screen?
 
USMC-SSGT said:
What do you see when I ident? Confetti? Flashing lights? Hear a Journey song?

or...does my callsign just blink on your screen?
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Depending on what equipment the facility has, STARs and MICRO-EARTS see a little "ID" next to your callsign, the ol TPN/GPN see little circles around your primary/becon control slash...
 
bkey79 said:
Depending on what equipment the facility has, STARs and MICRO-EARTS see a little "ID" next to your callsign, the ol TPN/GPN see little circles around your primary/becon control slash...
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Good to know. The amazing canuckjet has the Ident button right next to the frequency swap button...sometimes you get an ID on accident from me.
 
Is it bad practice if I get an enroute code change to simply type it in as they are telling it to me and press ident when done. This would be in lieu of reading them back the new code while they wait to see the new one on the screen? Im all about conserving energy and reading back 4 numbers increases my workload.
 
USMC-SSGT said:
Is it bad practice if I get an enroute code change to simply type it in as they are telling it to me and press ident when done. This would be in lieu of reading them back the new code while they wait to see the new one on the screen? Im all about conserving energy and reading back 4 numbers increases my workload.
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Hard to say, and hard to phrase an answer. Please keep in mind I work terminal, not enroute - so hopefully one of the enroute folks will chime in too. But basically the mechanics would work something like this:

You are in BeerCan123.

I am looking at your target. "Beer," I look away and start my scan... "Can123, squawk 1234." By the time I read the code, I'm through say 8 of the 20 or so places I'm going to look before looking back to you. I call some traffic. I issue a freq change. I'm at 16 of 20 and hear no readback from you. So I say again, "Beercan123 squawk 1234." Now I'll assume you'll respond and I'm back to you in the scan to see the change/ident.

When all is said and done, I had to ask twice and you had to ident twice, and respond anyway - increasing both our workloads. Bad practice? I don't know if I would call it that. For me, when breaking down the mechanics, I wouldn't look back to you until your vocal response cued me to do so, as changing a beacon code isn't something so critical it would cause me to stare at you waiting for it.
 
TripSix said:
Hard to say, and hard to phrase an answer. Please keep in mind I work terminal, not enroute - so hopefully one of the enroute folks will chime in too. But basically the mechanics would work something like this:

You are in BeerCan123.

I am looking at your target. "Beer," I look away and start my scan... "Can123, squawk 1234." By the time I read the code, I'm through say 8 of the 20 or so places I'm going to look before looking back to you. I call some traffic. I issue a freq change. I'm at 16 of 20 and hear no readback from you. So I say again, "Beercan123 squawk 1234." Now I'll assume you'll respond and I'm back to you in the scan to see the change/ident.

When all is said and done, I had to ask twice and you had to ident twice, and respond anyway - increasing both our workloads. Bad practice? I don't know if I would call it that. For me, when breaking down the mechanics, I wouldn't look back to you until your vocal response cued me to do so, as changing a beacon code isn't something so critical it would cause me to stare at you waiting for it.
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I rarely read back the code out of home field, but then again, they expect that. I can generally have the code punched in and hit the ident button before they unkey the mike. On the road though, the code gets red back for that exact reason. You guys are expecting a read back,and if you don't get it, I know you're going to ask me again, and that doesn't do any good.
 
cmill said:
I rarely read back the code out of home field, but then again, they expect that. I can generally have the code punched in and hit the ident button before they unkey the mike. On the road though, the code gets red back for that exact reason. You guys are expecting a read back,and if you don't get it, I know you're going to ask me again, and that doesn't do any good.
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That's common practice for an initial code. 99 times out of 100, that's exactly what happens. When for whatever reason I have to issue a code change, the mechanics are slightly different.
 
well unless there was a change in the 7110.65 a verbal read back of a beacon is not required, the controller observing the pilot squawking or not squawking a code is considered a read back.
 
queeno said:
well unless there was a change in the 7110.65 a verbal read back of a beacon is not required, the controller observing the pilot squawking or not squawking a code is considered a read back.
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True. If someone could get that through the skulls of the goons in QA...I'd gladly give them a list of other things to clear up. :)
 
The radar systems can sometimes take several seconds to notice a code change and tag up the aircraft (if untagged). The amount of time that elapses between the pilot changing the code on the transponder, and my display processing that change, seems to warrant a readback if for no other reason than to avoid an awkward silence.

Also, please don't ident unless specifically told to do so. It doesn't help.
 
greg1016 said:
In my limited experience, I have found certain carriers are more reliable than others when it comes to truthfully reporting capabilities and fulfilling duties such as remembering to report level or back on route (I am a non-radar controller, these things are extremely important to my ability to form and execute a good plan, and decreasing my workload). In turn, I am more likely to go out of my way to accommodate the carriers that help me out on a regular basis.

Me: XXX123 (at flight level 370) say when able flight level 390
XXX123: unable F390
Me: XXX123 descend and maintain flight level 350 due to traffic
XXX123: we can now accept flight level 390
Me: XXX123 flight level 390 no longer available, descend and maintain flight level 350

same carrier, obviously deviating (aircraft is ADS, thus automatically reporting its position without pilot action)

Me: XXX123 cleared to deviate 20 miles right of course
XXX123: unable
Me: !!! (looking for nearest baby to punch)

Now, all that being said, it is my job to provide good service to all aircraft and above all to be safe, but if I am busy and an aircraft from that carrier is stuck at F330 and is requesting F370, rerouting that aircraft to get a better altitude will be very low on the priorities list.
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Got to love that, or some unnamed airline whos ADS and CPDLC are 100% questionable, to the point we cannot use them. btw what facility are you at, I'm on of the new guys at ZOA in the ocean
 
I've had a few accidental idents in my career... one time I got reprimanded for it, but the other times they asked just responded with a "don't worry about it."
 
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