Envoy TA Voting: The Better Part of Valor

wheelsup said:
If they can't afford a $5000 pay cut how will they ever afford the $60,000 one when they flow to AA

Plus isn't TSA paying more than a topped out Envoy FO anyway?
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TSA pays no per diem and 60 hours @ $23 till the end of IOE. For a FO living pay check to pay check they can't make that move.
 
@wheelsup I doubt you will find any "lifers" here. I also doubt anyone complaining about kneecapping at the regionals isn't trying like heck to get out. It's nice to be able to keep the lights on for currency, and the pay and schedule respectable while working on the next level. Getting out often involves luck and timing - I'm a good example of it. We know what you meant but it comes across as uncaring when the guys wanting to move on are just trying to make it. YMMV, I hope everyone moves on and soon.
 
Gonzo said:
TSA pays no per diem and 60 hours @ $23 till the end of IOE. For a FO living pay check to pay check they can't make that move.
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Hell I was a low paid CFI and a low paid regional FO and now a low paid major FO. One thing I learned right off the bat is never put yourself in a position where you have to use those words to stop career advancement.
 
SpiceWeasel said:
@wheelsup I doubt you will find any "lifers" here. I also doubt anyone complaining about kneecapping at the regionals isn't trying like heck to get out. It's nice to be able to keep the lights on for currency, and the pay and schedule respectable while working on the next level. Getting out often involves luck and timing - I'm a good example of it. We know what you meant but it comes across as uncaring when the guys wanting to move on are just trying to make it. YMMV, I hope everyone moves on and soon.
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Yeah my tough love came across as dickish, I'm sorry.

I spent 8+ years at the commuter level, I know what it's like. I was caught up in age 65 and 2008 oil prices and then the financial crisis. It sucked.

Those at the commuter level now have options that didn't exist back then. Exercise them.
 
wheelsup said:
Yeah my tough love came across as dickish, I'm sorry. I spent 8+ years at the commuter level, I know what it's like. I was caught up in age 65 and 2008 oil prices and then the financial crisis. It sucked. Those at the commuter level now have options that didn't exist back then. Exercise them.
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Some of us went through those three things and are still going through it.

Those at the commuter level with < 1/2 yrs longevity have options. Those of us within 200-300 of an upgrade and clearing 55k-60k a year as an FO - those options are much more difficult to vision. Especially when some of us have other income streams.
 
bLizZuE said:
I get it. Lines suck. But don't say that everything in our contract is awful because we have crappy lines.
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Nobody was saying your contract was awful. YOU said that it was much better than PSA's, which, in the terms of MMMTO it's not. Also in terms of fleet size and block hour protections (ie: the regional equivalent of scope since regionals, especially in the form of WOs don't actually own any flying they can protect with traditional "scope") it's about the same as everybody else.
 
Gonzo said:
Give up, you will never get people to understand that we gained more scope.
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Please explain this as I obviously must have my facts incorrect.

Did you not have language akin to "the pilots go with the acft" before?

Was that not given away for the flow for anyone hired prior to Oct 2011?

How is whatever you have now "more", or "better" that that?
 
jon-popcorn.gif


Also, it'll pass.
 
wheelsup said:
While you guys are comparing minor league contracts thousands more will have to make the choice between bidding narrow body domestic and wide body intl in new hire classes in ATL, DFW or IAH. Just sayin.
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Had to quote this for emphasis.
 
Trip7 said:
Had to quote this for emphasis.
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Why do we need the emphasis? Just because some of us have chosen not to make a move to another regional doesn't mean we aren't trying our best to advance our career. I have the hunger to move on, even if it is not to a legacy, but I am sticking it out at Envoy as opposed to another regional.
 
Gonzo said:
What about guys that are against flow through's? You busted your ass to get to where you are right now. How would you feel if some guy who did nothing other than sit on his ass got to be Sr to you? I am busting my ass to move up and have no desire to hep somebody who is not willing to work for that mainline job. Am I right @Derg ?
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In no way I'm advocating sitting and depending on flow. I'm an advocate of movement and flows help that. Look at Compass. They have flow and pilots are still going to other carriers. This helps creates massive movement and helps career progression.
 
CFIscare said:
Why do we need the emphasis? Just because some of us have chosen not to make a move to another regional doesn't mean we aren't trying our best to advance our career. I have the hunger to move on, even if it is not to a legacy, but I am sticking it out at Envoy as opposed to another regional.
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This isn't directed at those who choose not to make a lateral move. It's to point out how short sighted comparing regional contracts are. With all the PSA bashing going on, you'd think that PSA pilots decided to cut their pay in half when in reality the difference in pay for two topped out FOs(excluding the much quicker advancement at PSA) is a couple hundred dollars a month.
 
Trip7 said:
In no way I'm advocating sitting and depending on flow. I'm an advocate of movement and flows help that. Look at Compass. They have flow and pilots are still going to other carriers. This helps creates massive movement and helps career progression.
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Meanwhile, at ExpressJet Airlines...
 
Trip7 said:
This isn't directed at those who choose not to make a lateral move. It's to point out how short sighted comparing regional contracts are. With all the PSA bashing going on, you'd think that PSA pilots decided to cut their pay in half when in reality the difference in pay for two topped out FOs(excluding the much quicker advancement at PSA) is a couple hundred dollars a month.
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