Envoy TA Voting: The Better Part of Valor

[bLizZuE]

That's good. What do you mean by interviews?

I am actively interviewing.

 

[surreal1221]

Good, How so?

More importantly, it's none of your business.

One thing so many of you fail to recall is that the decisions of another are not necessarily the right of a collective public to be informed about.

I get it, congrats to a few of you for making the right decisions for YOU - but for anyone to chastise - rather than HELP - another member of this forum is just downright depressing.

Self-righteousness can take a backseat once in a while ladies.

 

[mastermags]

'The Better Part of Valor'

Voting on the TA opens tomorrow. I'd like to start by saying whether you're for or against it, please vote. The issue we face comes to us at a turning point of the industry. Making it clear to our peers and our management that this is an issue we have diligently and throughly examined -it sends a strong message. Whatever we decide, let it not be decided by apathy.

Please vote.

When you vote, please stop to consider the value of the contract you're voting on. Many of you may recall the thought of working without a contract at all if we had been abrogated in bankruptcy. I previously worked for Colgan Air in 2007, at a time when they had neither contract nor union representation. Every day pilots went to work believing that raising the ire of the company could mean termination without recourse. Conditions there aligned with that fear. Many pilots were so annoyed with how we were treated they were actually abandoning trip sequences at outstations and catching jumpseats on other carriers to new jobs. I know this because one day the company president said as much to us while chatting with employees in the terminal. He laughed at us. This was further documented by former Colgan pilot Corey Heiser, who spoke with PBS Frontline after the crash of Colgan 3407. I can speak to his honesty and sincerity- I was his First Officer for four months of my time there.

No contractual protection meant pilots worked in fear and responded as such. It was a grim place to work when things didn't go as planned. I blundered in there unawares of what it would be like. My parents were both former Northwest Airlines employees, and my late Father later taught ground school and simulator periods for American Airlines until he passed. My vision of what an airline was 'supposed to be like' was sharply contrasted with life at Colgan Air.

After the union drive failed in 2007, I sent my résumé wide and with prior 121 experience got a few interview offers with other regionals. When American Eagle welcomed me aboard in early October of that year, I had to politely decline a few other companies. While a long upgrade time was the joke of prospective regional airline pilots everywhere, I saw opportunity and stability in American Eagle. I bet on Eagle.

Time would pass and some things I thought to be true would be correct and others would not. Ultimately though, I slowly became aware of the sharp disparity between the promised progression of a regional pilot career and the end reality. Even still I've often remarked that compared to Colgan Air, on its worst day Eagle still looked like NASA.

A big part of that was most certainly our contract. When Colgan ran a second Union drive in late 2008, I volunteered to travel to their domiciles. I took a paper copy of our contract.

A few short months after that, Colgan Air 3407 crashed, killing fifty people. In the wake of the crash I erected a simple website and campaigned for people to write elected officials and push for more stringent hiring requirements and rest rules for pilots. When many pilots were shying away from the press, I did interviews. I even did an off air interview for Michael Moore's movie segment on regional airline pilots. I like to think that I may have played a small part in the passage of the legislation that followed. I like to think that the end effect of that legislation is more rest and better qualified pilots, but also sociological change in the industry.

A big part of that change is happening now. Pilots are becoming valuable again. We're becoming a more rare and precious commodity like in days of old, and the long hours, extreme low pay and constant fear of our employers doing away with us are slowly changing into a newer, more livable scenario.

The things that we gain to show our value to our companies and to our industry are put down and made legally binding by our contracts. I've fought long and hard to help see that happen.

When you vote, I ask that you please consider the value - our value- that is noted in our contract. Make sure you fully understand what is being changed and what it really means when you cast your vote.

When you do vote, I ask that you vote your conscience. You've heard me time and time again say I'm voting 'no'. I've never wanted to leave here for other carriers besides American. A friend wisely convinced me not to put all my eggs in one basket, but that other basket is a major legacy carrier, and I haven't heard anything yet. My original plan, especially after 2011, was simple. Stay at Eagle, upgrade to Captain, and when the time was right, make the move to American. I'm still here.

I believed, previously, that if we stood our ground, we could keep Eagle largely as it is. Given what I've learned about our prior management, that may have been true. Given our new management's agenda, I must concede that that vision was a little shortsighted. Evolution is now inevitable. However that might turn out is clearly debatable.

I still believe, however, that with the changes in motion in recent years and the trends in the industry, now is the time to make a stand and hold the line. Every time we give up a concession, every time we grow by giving something up, we set the stage for management to erode our mainline counterparts. If this trend continues, there may be far less of mainline component to flow up towards. I believe in this and I've fought for it and I've stuck my neck out more than a few times.

But I've more than said my peace on that, and why I think we pilots should vote 'no'.

I'm really here to talk about what I would ask you to think about before you vote 'yes'.

First and foremost, don't do it just for the 'bonus money'. I've talked to a few pilots that have plans to flow or move up and just want to take the money and run. They have no concern for what they leave behind. Even worse, I've talked to pilots who want to vote yes, and then collect the bonus on their way to an 'alter-Eagle' carrier.

For the love of all that's decent, don't do it because you're leaving and you don't really care. Have some respect for those you leave behind that have to live with the outcome of this vote.

Also, don't do it because you're afraid. Fear is what drove the voters at PSA and Piedmont. Don't do it out of fear because I guarantee this won't be the last time the company threatens us.

If you vote and do choose to vote 'yes', I ask that you do it because you truly, honestly believe it's the right path forward for Envoy pilots. Look past the self-interest and fear that the company is leveraging against us to force our hand and ask yourself if you really believe this will be the best outcome for Envoy pilots. I can't say I agree with it or that I'd like it, but if you can honestly say that, I can at the very least respect it.

Sometimes, discretion is the better part of valor. If you believe this is the time to cede ground and this is truly the best we can do, let your vote for it be born of valor instead of self-interest, greed, and manipulation.

We've all argued the points and fought hard and we haven't always been civil. I admit I've been guilty of that at times. Mea culpa. I've put my heart and soul into this job and this profession and I am passionate in what I believe about it. But for now I'm going to settle down for a while and let Envoy pilots make up their minds and make their peace with this decision.

On the 23rd of December, we'll have our outcome to this vote and we'll plot our course from that point forward. But however much we disagree now, whatever we choose to vote, let us all move forward with integrity, honor, and valor while we face our corporate bullies and do the best that we can for ourselves.

... and when the votes are counted, let's all remember that we have to live with each other and the aftermath. People have asked what will separate us from the likes of PSA if this passes. I say, let us be able to look them in the eye and say proudly that we pushed for every single inch we could get and settled for nothing less.

Whatever you vote, if you truly believe you can say that, I for one will respect it.

And whatever may come, we'll move forward. Not because management allows it, but because that's who we are.

We are the original American Eagle. We may never be the same again, so let this time of change be a moment of courage, integrity, and honor.

Please, everyone- cast your votes. Let them hear us!

 

[CFIscare]

More importantly, it's none of your business.

One thing so many of you fail to recall is that the decisions of another are not necessarily the right of a collective public to be informed about.

I get it, congrats to a few of you for making the right decisions for YOU - but for anyone to chastise - rather than HELP - another member of this forum is just downright depressing.

Self-righteousness can take a backseat once in a while ladies.

Thank you for saving me from typing a response on my phone.

 

[roundout]

More importantly, it's none of your business.

One thing so many of you fail to recall is that the decisions of another are not necessarily the right of a collective public to be informed about.

I get it, congrats to a few of you for making the right decisions for YOU - but for anyone to chastise - rather than HELP - another member of this forum is just downright depressing.

Self-righteousness can take a backseat once in a while ladies.

Indeed. Obviously, everybody who has gotten up and out has much to be proud of. Even in the current environment, getting called in for an interview, nailing it, making it through training has to be a source of happiness, relief, and vindication for your efforts, because it's still quite a feat.

Please don't think that those of us who haven't enjoyed such good fortune are lesser pilots, or lesser people for still being at regionals. Personally, I've been using my spare time to volunteer my ass off recently. (Lo and behold,a guy at one of my volunteer opps is a delta f/o. You never know who you might meet volunteering.) I get letters of recommendation from captains I fly with, and I keep in touch with my contacts. My time will come. But please don't poo on me because yours came first.

 

[bLizZuE]

More importantly, it's none of your business.

One thing so many of you fail to recall is that the decisions of another are not necessarily the right of a collective public to be informed about.

I get it, congrats to a few of you for making the right decisions for YOU - but for anyone to chastise - rather than HELP - another member of this forum is just downright depressing.

Self-righteousness can take a backseat once in a while ladies.

I typed something akin to this a few times before deciding to just take it at face value. This is partially what frustrates me about all these posts: most everyone knows very little about anyone else's situation.

 

[ClarkGriswold]

More importantly, it's none of your business.

One thing so many of you fail to recall is that the decisions of another are not necessarily the right of a collective public to be informed about.

I get it, congrats to a few of you for making the right decisions for YOU - but for anyone to chastise - rather than HELP - another member of this forum is just downright depressing.

Self-righteousness can take a backseat once in a while ladies.

All I did was ask how he was actively working on getting out. Nothing wrong with that, and may give other people on here ideas on how to better their efforts. I just didn't know what he meant, interviewing at other regionals for practice? interviewing at majors? interview prep? interviewing for Envoy? Pump the brakes on the self righteousness crap, there's alot of that coming from the hardcore Envoy and Expressjet stay till the end types. Goes both ways.

 

[roundout]

All I did was ask how he was actively working on getting out. Nothing wrong with that, and may give other people on here ideas on how to better their efforts. I just didn't know what he meant, interviewing at other regionals for practice? interviewing at majors? interview prep? interviewing for Envoy? Pump the brakes on the self righteousness crap, there's alot of that coming from the hardcore Envoy and Expressjet stay till the end types. Goes both ways.

Are you interviewing and studying, or are you standing pat with your job at compass?

 

[ClarkGriswold]

Are you interviewing and studying, or are you standing pat with your job at compass?

You know the answer to that.

 

[ctab5060X]

So your advice for pilots is to recycle themselves at year 1 pay over and over thus playing right into management's hands?? This is supposed to be good advice how?

Nope. I advocate making a single lateral move that is also a smart move and good for career advancement. Those opportunities are out there right now.

And you obviously have it out for Envoy for some reason. Your characterization of our company as "sinking" short sighted. We are currently voting on a TA. It closes next week, then lets talk. If it gets voted down, yes. Envoy will sink. If it passes, Envoy will be as viable a place to work for as ever. Our MEC Chairman said so himself on tonight's conference call: For the past year AA has gone out of their way TO NOT invest in Envoy and make things bad. With a new contract in place AA will utilize all their resources and efforts to invest in Envoy and make this an attractive airline. With that First Officers will upgrade to Captain and Captains will flow to AA. Oh, and starting with the protected pilot group you don't even need to be a Captain to flow to AA.

Yes, I do have it out for Envoy. I want your doors closed and each and every pilot working there flying those shiny new 175s without the word "Eagle" painted on the side.

Good luck on your contract vote. I have no dog in that particular fight as I am more concerned about ongoing JCBA negotiations. However, don't fool yourself as thinking it will all be roses and sunshine if it passes. It might be for a time, but with profit margins on the regional feed are already razor thin, guess which carriers will bear the brunt if the regionals start costing AAG money.

 

[bLizZuE]

And there you have it. Thanks for your "advice" thinly veiled as a personal vendetta to further the demise of my career.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

This thread is so disappointing. A deranged lunatic who "dropped the mic" months ago about how he and his merry band of holier-than-thou STW d-bags were going to teach AMR a lesson has been shown to be a complete fool, still comes around to preach his self-rightous nonsense, and you're arguing amongst each other about which regional is better? Focus!

 

[roundout]

However, don't fool yourself as thinking it will all be roses and sunshine if it passes. It might be for a time, but with profit margins on the regional feed are already razor thin, guess which carriers will bear the brunt if the regionals start costing AAG money.

I don't think anybody at envoy has any delusions of grandeur. There are no ponies, there are no slurpee machines. There are jets, some shiny, but this isn't about jets. If anybody thinks it's about jets, they need to have their head examined.

 

[ctab5060X]

And there you have it. Thanks for your "advice" thinly veiled as a personal vendetta to further the demise of my career.

Read what I wrote. I want the entire pilot group at Envoy to be flying those promised 175s for mainline wages with a mainline contact.

 

[roundout]

So do we, but that's not on the table.

 

[bLizZuE]

Read what I wrote. I want the entire pilot group at Envoy to be flying those promised 175s for mainline wages with a mainline contact.

Wake the heck up man. Never going to happen. I wish it would, but it won't.

 

[derg]

Hot dang. Zero to six pages in no time flat. Nothing reported so I'm going to go eat some pie.

 

[ctab5060X]

Wake the heck up man. Never going to happen. I wish it would, but it won't.

Whatever...

Check back when your airplane doesn't have "operated by" written on the side.

It's going to take a collective effort if scope clauses are going to change. If we don't dream it, then it never has a chance of changing for the good.

 

[surreal1221]

All I did was ask how he was actively working on getting out. Nothing wrong with that, and may give other people on here ideas on how to better their efforts. I just didn't know what he meant, interviewing at other regionals for practice? interviewing at majors? interview prep? interviewing for Envoy? Pump the brakes on the self righteousness crap, there's alot of that coming from the hardcore Envoy and Expressjet stay till the end types. Goes both ways.

I can be pretty dense, but I'm not naive. Or ignorant.

A lot of emotion has been tossed around in this thread - thinly disguised as genuine concern. You, and many others for that matter, would be best served keeping note of that fact and that people notice.

I am absolutely disgusted by the fact that many here wish to claim victory over others in this very profession because of some amount of self-righteous accomplishment and enjoyment in feeling as if one's place of employment may disappear.

Till the end Envoy and ExpressJet types? Nice try. What I see are folks who are being realist about their current relative place at a company. If that is so difficult for you to understand than I do not know what else to tell you. Besides perhaps, YOU will be just okay.

Your concern about what another member has done to "move on" came following intense discussion about why someone has not taken a lateral move. This in an effort to imply the member has not done "enough."

In the end - ALL of us are attempting to move on. We are ALL doing the same things. No, not all of us will be awarded a type rating scholarship. No, not all of us will be ushered into the HQ's of our most desirable company. But ALL of us are networking. ALL of us are staying current. ALL of us are performing our current jobs to the best of our abilities. ALL of us are studying for interviews. ALL of us are attending job fairs that are practical to attend.

So, yeah - sorry though. Not all of us are ready to throw away years of seniority or longevity when movement is occurring - just not at the pace that someone on the Internet thinks it should move. Not all of us are willing to make family sacrifices just so we an chase after that fourth stripe. Not all of us are going to get awarded that type rating scholarship. Not all of us are going to have opportunities dropped in our laps on a silver plate. Not all of us are single. Not all of us are able to relocate to sit reserve, for less money, as some.

Those of you judging other's for their lack of movement should be disappointed in yourselves. I never once thought I would say that but it is clear to me some members of this forum have forgotten what I believe this forum was created to be - a family. And families help each other - not tear each other down.

To those that made a lateral move and have not been condescending to others - Thank you.

To those that have successfully made it to their career destination without reminding everyone still left in the trenches that they have failed - Thank you.

Everyone else, keep your heads up and do what is best for YOU. YOU are the only decision maker in your life, unless you have a spouse - but you understand what I mean.

I'm here to help.

 

[bLizZuE]

Whatever...

Check back when your airplane doesn't have "operated by" written on the side.

It's going to take a collective effort if scope clauses are going to change. If we don't dream it, then it never has a chance of changing for the good.

I bet that felt good to say to the lowly regional guy.