Enroute CPDLC

[Kingpong12]

Hey, I’m a US center controller and I have a couple questions for commercial pilots who use CPDLC.

How do you feel about using it? I try to use CPDLC whenever I can since it’s supposed to be “the wave of the future”. However there are times when it seems like pilots are apprehensive towards using it.

How loud is the ding? Sometimes pilots will say they never heard it. Can the volume be adjusted in the cockpit?

Are there times when you rather hear the controller’s voice over CPDLC? I’ve had times where a pilot requests an altitude or shortcut, and I’ll tell them I’ll uplink it (usually cuz I’m busy). I uplink it and they never acknowledge it, but I come back to verbally give the clearance and they accept it like that’s how they were expecting to receive it.

Any insight is greatly appreciated.

 

[Screaming_Emu]

I absolutely love it.

It’s nice having a text record of what you’re cleared and I enjoy the peace and quiet of places that use it.

The ding isn’t bad at all. On my plane, however, it’s the same ding for SELCAL, ACARS, CPDLC, and the intercom. So sometimes I’m not entirely sure who is trying to get ahold of me for a second.

 

[EIR]

I love it, especially overseas. It doesn’t leave you second guessing what the controller said. Just don’t be like France and use cpdlc along with voice at the same time.

The ding is fairly loud in the 767; there will also be a message that pops up on the cdu and panel. It would be pretty hard to miss.

The only time I prefer voice Is when we’re trying to deviate around wx.


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[DE727UPS]

The bad thing about the ding is it's the same ding that we get for any random ACARS message. My ding response is trained to look at the ACARS and then I can't figure why there is no message and then I realize it must be that new ATC thing. I like it, though, and will get used to it. I don't know why guys would not like it other than maybe not trust it? Can the Chinese infiltrate the system? There were a couple incidents where messages popped up that were from a previous flights a while back and we had to quit using it. I'm not sure if it was just us or other airlines. But we have this crazy post flight procedure now where we have to kill power to the airplane for 15 seconds in the middle of our secure checklist. This supposedly erases the ATC log for sure even after you have erased it normally. The plane doesn't like it, though. Often weird status messages and funny sounds as the power comes back on. Have been told the company didn't like this procedure but the FAA mandated it for us before they would let us back into CPDLC enroute.

 

[DE727UPS]

Question for the controllers. I often notice you guys seem to be hesitant to give multiple instructions in one transmission. I think that's good cause I might be able to do two things but three will blow my brain and I'll just have to ask again, which is counter productive to you. I think controllers get in the mindset that it helps us to not have multiple items in one transmission and breaks things up. For example, a descent clearance and a speed restriction. Then another call for the frequency change. That's great for voice but for the CPDLC you could send me four things at once and that would be fine. I'd rather than three or four things come at once than have to deal with multiple CPDLC "transmissions". Every time you send me a CPDLC I have to look at it and hit standby. Confirm with the flying pilot. Check the time stamp. Accept it. Then actually do what it says. Having to do that multiple times is seriously way more work than voice. But feel free to hit me with it all on one CPDLC. That's no big deal.

 

[Kingpong12]

Question for the controllers. I often notice you guys seem to be hesitant to give multiple instructions in one transmission. I think that's good cause I might be able to do two things but three will blow my brain and I'll just have to ask again, which is counter productive to you. I think controllers get in the mindset that it helps us to not have multiple items in one transmission and breaks things up. For example, a descent clearance and a speed restriction. Then another call for the frequency change. That's great for voice but for the CPDLC you could send me four things at once and that would be fine. I'd rather than three or four things come at once than have to deal with multiple CPDLC "transmissions". Every time you send me a CPDLC I have to look at it and hit standby. Confirm with the flying pilot. Check the time stamp. Accept it. Then actually do what it says. Having to do that multiple times is seriously way more work than voice. But feel free to hit me with it all on one CPDLC. That's no big deal.

Personally I try to only give two instructions in one transmission, just cuz it’s easier to understand and for me to catch an error. Every now and then I’ll do several instructions in one transmission if I feel like it’s very simple.
My only exception is a descend via clearance. I hate to give a descend via with a speed/attitude amendment AND an altimeter. I feel like it’s too many numbers but the altimeter isn’t as important I suppose.

 

[A300Capt]

I think it’s pretty nice to have the CPDLC messaging vs the verbal freq congestion. Like Don said, CLDLC message is the same “chime” that we get for normal ACARS messages and my Pavlovian response is to look there first while then looking around saying wtf?

We have no volume control. What helps on the MD11 is that we’ll get a “ATC Comm” flashing cursor on the ND (moving map) along with the chime. CPDLC messages are usually so sporadic that I can go days without getting one enroute and then all of sudden I’ll get several In a row. Makes it hard to get into the rhythm of using it, expecting it or recognizing it.

Last week it would’ve come in very useful but wasn’t used by ATC. First, while enroute and maneuvering around T’storms and moderate rain, we had such a static buildup from precipitation that normal radio communications became almost impossible. I blindly asked ATC (MEM center) to use CPDLC until we were clear of the wx. Never received any messages. Next, we missed or never received a freq handoff. We hunted around in the iPad for a freq and then blindly asked on 121.5 before center answered. A simple CPDLC message would’ve been helpful.

Sometimes ATC asked if we are descending, climbing yet or turning yada..yada etc. Usually followed by him stating “I sent you a message....didn’t you get it?” No, we didn’t. “Did you see me acknowledging your phantom message?” Unfortunately one of the problems with the system.

Overall, it’s a great system....when used and working properly. It’ll get better...

 

[Kingpong12]

I think it’s pretty nice to have the CPDLC messaging vs the verbal freq congestion. Like Don said, CLDLC message is the same “chime” that we get for normal ACARS messages and my Pavlovian response is to look there first while then looking around saying wtf?

We have no volume control. What helps on the MD11 is that we’ll get a “ATC Comm” flashing cursor on the ND (moving map) along with the chime. CPDLC messages are usually so sporadic that I can go days without getting one enroute and then all of sudden I’ll get several In a row. Makes it hard to get into the rhythm of using it, expecting it or recognizing it.

Last week it would’ve come in very useful but wasn’t used by ATC. First, while enroute and maneuvering around T’storms and moderate rain, we had such a static buildup from precipitation that normal radio communications became almost impossible. I blindly asked ATC (MEM center) to use CPDLC until we were clear of the wx. Never received any messages. Next, we missed or never received a freq handoff. We hunted around in the iPad for a freq and then blindly asked on 121.5 before center answered. A simple CPDLC message would’ve been helpful.

Sometimes ATC asked if we are descending, climbing yet or turning yada..yada etc. Usually followed by him stating “I sent you a message....didn’t you get it?” No, we didn’t. “Did you see me acknowledging your phantom message?” Unfortunately one of the problems with the system.

Overall, it’s a great system....when used and working properly. It’ll get better...

I agree with you that CPDLC can be extremely helpful in situations like that. Only downside is that so far we’re limited in what we can send (altitudes, freqs, routes, and some crossing restrictions). In the future we’ll be able to send free text. Also, my center ZKC is one of the few that uses CPDLC full time, other centers will be fully online eventually.

Thanks for all the pilot input!

 

[MikeOH58]

Corporate guy wishing we could participate but have been kicked out for a few months now. Argh

 

[jtrain609]

It's impossible to miss a CPDLC message in the Airbus. First it comes up on a dedicated box, then a light on the panel will flash, then it'll give you a really annoying sound until you respond.

 

[jynxyjoe]

Hey, I’m a US center controller and I have a couple questions for commercial pilots who use CPDLC.

How do you feel about using it? I try to use CPDLC whenever I can since it’s supposed to be “the wave of the future”. However there are times when it seems like pilots are apprehensive towards using it.

How loud is the ding? Sometimes pilots will say they never heard it. Can the volume be adjusted in the cockpit?

Are there times when you rather hear the controller’s voice over CPDLC? I’ve had times where a pilot requests an altitude or shortcut, and I’ll tell them I’ll uplink it (usually cuz I’m busy). I uplink it and they never acknowledge it, but I come back to verbally give the clearance and they accept it like that’s how they were expecting to receive it.

Any insight is greatly appreciated.

It's great, cpdlc all the way, yes it's the same sound as another thing and IDC. Anyone against cpdlc is against America.

 

[z987k]

I tried to log on domestic CPDLC the other day and it wouldn't take it. We tried with thr controller a few times and and on a few different occasions but no dice.
It's rather weird that the two centers that are testing it are tiny. SLC and map are to two large areas with little going on.

I've become so accustomed to CPDLC that I loathe VHF comms. I rather do not like domestic flying anymore for many reasons(unprofessionalism & non standard phraseology top the list) but the frequency change every 16 seconds is certainly one of them.

 

[Boris Badenov]

*DING*. "Yo, cockpit! I said cockpit. Hello? HELLO?" *sees "ATC" on the EICAS* "*#&$(#*$&#$("

But seriously CPDLC is all that is greatness. If you don't like it you're a communist.

 

[NJA_Capt]

No apprehension on our side. CPDLC is awesome. Not sure what version the 121 guys are using, but ours has a "ding" (you guys crack me up) and a cyan CPDLC that pops up on CAS. From what I have encountered, comm times are extremely quick when asking for higher altitudes or deviations. Enroute messages for turbulence enroute are rather handy too.

I blindly asked ATC (MEM center) to use CPDLC until we were clear of the wx. Never received any messages. Next, we missed or never received a freq handoff. We hunted around in the iPad for a freq and then blindly asked on 121.5 before center answered. A simple CPDLC message would’ve been helpful.

Where you logged on at the time? If not, without being logged into the same center, I can't see how they would send it. At least with out FMS, we are supposed to leave it on the ADS page to monitor connection status while using CPDLC. I have only seen it kick offline once, but we caught it right away and signed back on.

 

[NJA_Capt]

Are there times when you rather hear the controller’s voice over CPDLC? I’ve had times where a pilot requests an altitude or shortcut, and I’ll tell them I’ll uplink it (usually cuz I’m busy). I uplink it and they never acknowledge it, but I come back to verbally give the clearance and they accept it like that’s how they were expecting to receive it.

No. Never.
Are you using CPDLC and voice at the same time ????? There should be no VHF while operating on CPDLC, it pretty much defeats the purpose. Sounds like people either not paying attention or not well versed on datalink ops.

 

[T/O w/FSII]

No. Never.
Are you using CPDLC and voice at the same time ????? There should be no VHF while operating on CPDLC, it pretty much defeats the purpose. Sounds like people either not paying attention or not well versed on datalink ops.

So you haven’t flown much in Europe lately I take it?

Every frequency change is CPDLC but I have to check in and monitor with voice. Dumb.


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[Kingpong12]

No. Never.
Are you using CPDLC and voice at the same time ????? There should be no VHF while operating on CPDLC, it pretty much defeats the purpose. Sounds like people either not paying attention or not well versed on datalink ops.

I use CPDLC whenever possible. However when a pilot doesn’t Wilco an uplink in a certain timeframe, we’re required to cancel the uplink and use voice. I can’t wait for more functionality, I look forward to it.

 

[Screaming_Emu]

So you haven’t flown much in Europe lately I take it?

Every frequency change is CPDLC but I have to check in and monitor with voice. Dumb.


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I feel like I’ve gotten a few “monitors” over there. But maybe I’m wrong.

 

[z987k]

No. Never.
Are you using CPDLC and voice at the same time ????? There should be no VHF while operating on CPDLC, it pretty much defeats the purpose. Sounds like people either not paying attention or not well versed on datalink ops.

In Canada a frequency change is just a "monitor" but switching FIRs like Edmonton to Vancouver requires an initial check on. I feel like Europe is the same way, but it's probably been 6-8 months since I've been over there.
Japan needs to get on board the domestic CPDLC thing to. Their oceanic is great but they refuse to use it when VHF.

Oh and just to show how behind the times the US is on this... Myanmar has and uses CPDLC and it works well. They barely even have airspace over water.

 

[A300Capt]

No apprehension on our side. CPDLC is awesome. Not sure what version the 121 guys are using, but ours has a "ding" (you guys crack me up) and a cyan CPDLC that pops up on CAS. From what I have encountered, comm times are extremely quick when asking for higher altitudes or deviations. Enroute messages for turbulence enroute are rather handy too.

Where you logged on at the time? If not, without being logged into the same center, I can't see how they would send it.

Yes, we were logged on...