Endeavor Flow for new hires

Well at least one ALPA group involved is speaking up.


Jonathan Allen said:
“To be asked to accept that new-hire pilots, who gave nothing to rescue this company from bankruptcy and who have not played a part in its revitalization, are more valuable to the airline and the brand than our current pilots is intolerable. It is wrong that new hires should get what Delta itself calls a ‘ticket to Delta’ while we continue to be offered only a coin toss.

“The MEC has stressed the need for a broader solution to Endeavor’s hiring problems—one which addresses job progression to Delta, pay and benefits for Endeavor’s current pilots, and demonstrates a level of commitment to current Endeavor pilots on par with what Delta and Endeavor have just given new hires. Currently, nearly every Endeavor first officer’s pay is capped at a wage much lower than their peers at other regional airlines, and many have been stuck in the copilot’s seat for as many as seven or eight years without the opportunity to be promoted to higher-paying captain positions, a trend worsened by the fact that captains continue to be forced back to first officer jobs as Endeavor Air’s fleet of airplanes shrinks.

“Our goal is to secure a comprehensive package that addresses the needs of the company, its pilots, and prospective new hires—a program that truly promises all of us a future. This is the only solution that fairly recognizes our contributions and the only path that can achieve the buy-in and support of the MEC and this pilot group.”
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ATN_Pilot said:
It's a sliding scale of 14-16 days off depending on the days in the month. Most lines, though, are pretty generic. It's usually 3 on 4 off, with the junior lines the opposite.
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While I agree with you on reserve rules, 14-16 days off a month for lines seems like a huge qol improvement. That would make me bid the airbus right away instead of having good schedules and lousy pay on the 190 like I'm doing. I guess the grass is always greener on the other side.
 
surreal1221 said:
Todd,

Upgrading and some ridiculous scheme used to recruit people into a company are not even remotely close.

How's about a Company hire the best candidate, rather than use a "flow" system whereby an individual who is not the best candidate is somehow hired over someone further down the line.

All I am saying, apply - interview - and succeed. If you're counting on a flow through opportunity to get to your next job, you're doing it wrong.
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Ya, because thy hire "the best" candidates.....
 
L-16B said:
While I agree with you on reserve rules, 14-16 days off a month for lines seems like a huge qol improvement. That would make me bid the airbus right away instead of having good schedules and lousy pay on the 190 like I'm doing. I guess the grass is always greener on the other side.
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I think you're just too used to a horrendous bankruptcy era contract that USAPA is too incompetent to fix. Your experience is definitely unusual for a major carrier's reserve rules.
 
kellwolf said:
JetBlue's thing is more like what Delta has with most DCI carriers: a preferential interview. You still have to interview at JetBlue when you get called on at CapeAir. This is one interview for both airlines it sounds like. My biggest thing is how is a low time guy straight outta Riddle gonna be able to answer Delta's TMAAT questions? He'll probably rock the house on the tech portion, but when it gets to the decision making analysis part of the interview, there aren't that many decisions to analyze.
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My friend who is a 7 year FO at XJT went to a job fair to talk to JB. The recruiter advised him to quit EV and go work at Cape Air so he would be eligible to get an interview.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
I think you're just too used to a horrendous bankruptcy era contract that USAPA is too incompetent to fix. Your experience is definitely unusual for a major carrier's reserve rules.
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Oh definitely . All I ever hear from the grey haired people is "we used to have this until LOA 93".

But hey, losing 15 hours of pay due to weather cancellations in February was fun. Adds excitement to my life come bill paying time.
 
bafanguy said:
One question comes to mind after reading the EtD document:

If a competitively-qualified person has previously put in a stand-alone app to Delta…but has not interviewed Delta yet…and then gets hired by Endeavor under this EtD program, does he forfeit his ability to continue pursuing an interview/employment with Delta as an independent candidate outside (and in addition to) the EtD program ?
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Based on what I've heard on how they're handling the SSP guys, that seems like a valid assumption. What I'm hearing from the few people I know at Endeavor still (and @jynxyjoe can add some color to this), if you apply at Delta or try to get face time at a job fair and are in the SSP program, they treat you like a leper until your number comes up for your SSP interview. I can't imagine it would be different from EtD people. You're basically selling your soul into indentured servitude for 4-8 years depending on upgrade times.

mastermags said:
My friend who is a 7 year FO at XJT went to a job fair to talk to JB. The recruiter advised him to quit EV and go work at Cape Air so he would be eligible to get an interview.
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Sounds like said person wasn't very up on the hiring stuff. If they're just a smiling face they picked to go to the job fair (which is actually kinda likely), then they might not know of all the 7 year XJT FOs that are already here and flying the line. Of the people I know that started recently or are waiting on a class date with us, almost all are FOs from Endeavor. The CAs seem to be waiting on their SSP shot first.

If it was a CFI or a new guy straight outta college, then yeah, I'd probably steer them towards Cape Air if jetBlue was their be-all-end-all destination. Never would I suggest that a regional FO with that kind of experience start all over again. We're hiring way too many of those guys (or have been in the past). Rumor is some stuff may be changing.
 
kellwolf said:
Based on what I've heard on how they're handling the SSP guys, that seems like a valid assumption. What I'm hearing from the few people I know at Endeavor still (and @jynxyjoe can add some color to this), if you apply at Delta or try to get face time at a job fair and are in the SSP program, they treat you like a leper until your number comes up for your SSP interview. I can't imagine it would be different from EtD people. You're basically selling your soul into indentured servitude for 4-8 years depending on upgrade times.



Sounds like said person wasn't very up on the hiring stuff. If they're just a smiling face they picked to go to the job fair (which is actually kinda likely), then they might not know of all the 7 year XJT FOs that are already here and flying the line. Of the people I know that started recently or are waiting on a class date with us, almost all are FOs from Endeavor. The CAs seem to be waiting on their SSP shot first.

If it was a CFI or a new guy straight outta college, then yeah, I'd probably steer them towards Cape Air if jetBlue was their be-all-end-all destination. Never would I suggest that a regional FO with that kind of experience start all over again. We're hiring way too many of those guys (or have been in the past). Rumor is some stuff may be changing.
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Sorry for the thread drift but the rumor I heard was competitive minimums were 5k total and at least 1k pic. Is that accurate?
 
kellwolf said:
Based on what I've heard on how they're handling the SSP guys, that seems like a valid assumption. What I'm hearing from the few people I know at Endeavor still (and @jynxyjoe can add some color to this), if you apply at Delta or try to get face time at a job fair and are in the SSP program, they treat you like a leper until your number comes up for your SSP interview. I can't imagine it would be different from EtD people. You're basically selling your soul into indentured servitude for 4-8 years depending on upgrade times.



Sounds like said person wasn't very up on the hiring stuff. If they're just a smiling face they picked to go to the job fair (which is actually kinda likely), then they might not know of all the 7 year XJT FOs that are already here and flying the line. Of the people I know that started recently or are waiting on a class date with us, almost all are FOs from Endeavor. The CAs seem to be waiting on their SSP shot first.

If it was a CFI or a new guy straight outta college, then yeah, I'd probably steer them towards Cape Air if jetBlue was their be-all-end-all destination. Never would I suggest that a regional FO with that kind of experience start all over again. We're hiring way too many of those guys (or have been in the past). Rumor is some stuff may be changing.
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Hiring too many regional FOs or too many Cape Air types?
 
kellwolf said:
Based on what I've heard on how they're handling the SSP guys, that seems like a valid assumption. What I'm hearing from the few people I know at Endeavor still (and @jynxyjoe can add some color to this), if you apply at Delta or try to get face time at a job fair and are in the SSP program, they treat you like a leper until your number comes up for your SSP interview. I can't imagine it would be different from EtD people. You're basically selling your soul into indentured servitude for 4-8 years depending on upgrade times.
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toilet.jpg


I add the color :O)
 
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RORO said:
Sorry for the thread drift but the rumor I heard was competitive minimums were 5k total and at least 1k pic. Is that accurate?
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I'm honestly not sure. I know one of the guys I wrote a letter for back in March started class last week. He's got 0 TPIC. He was an FO I flew with a lot at Pinnacle. As for the future, who knows? @PhilosopherPilot can tell ya more about what's coming through the schoolhouse at the moment. From what I've heard, it's a pretty eclectic mix. I've heard rumors that some of the guys (including the Cape Air guys) struggle a bit in training, but since I'm just a reserve guy that rarely flies, I don't know for sure. If it's true, I could see them altering the requirements, but high time doesn't necessarily mean that they'll pass training. I had a buddy who's sim partner was a super senior XJ -900 CA. He barely made it through, and was going to have to have extra line checks every few months to check his progress. Last I heard, he was on an "extended LOA." So, high time doesn't necessarily translate into passing. Good attitude and work ethic have a bit more to do with it....
 
Starting next JB window, "5000TT with 1000 TPIC." This is what I was told by one of the guys who does the app/interview stuff. Straight shooter and also a friend of mine.
 
On average we receive around 5 applications every couple of days. After the EtD announcement we received 60 the next couple of days. Looks like the program has some interest, hopefully it keeps up.
 
Soul Brotha' said:
Starting next JB window, "5000TT with 1000 TPIC." This is what I was told by one of the guys who does the app/interview stuff. Straight shooter and also a friend of mine.
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So they now have the highest time requirement of any airline in the US?
 
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