Endeavor Flow for new hires

ClarkGriswold said:
So they now have the highest time requirement of any airline in the US?
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I can almost see why an airline like Jet Blue would do that. It sounds like a lot of people are leaving for other airlines but they aren't exactly a place to avoid at this point, so perhaps they still have a ton of applicants. With PIC probably not going to be an issue at other carriers (how many pilots are going to go to Delta to get heavy time and then go to Jet Blue for QOL- not a ton), JB might reverse the standard wisdom and rationalize that if you have 1000 PIC in a 170 and are applying there, you might stay. Conversely, anyone with 5000 and 0 might be looking for something bigger to put on their résumé.
 
L-16B said:
While I agree with you on reserve rules, 14-16 days off a month for lines seems like a huge qol improvement. That would make me bid the airbus right away instead of having good schedules and lousy pay on the 190 like I'm doing. I guess the grass is always greener on the other side.
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Nice avatar there my texapublican friend
 
kellwolf said:
I'm honestly not sure. I know one of the guys I wrote a letter for back in March started class last week. He's got 0 TPIC. He was an FO I flew with a lot at Pinnacle. As for the future, who knows? @PhilosopherPilot can tell ya more about what's coming through the schoolhouse at the moment. From what I've heard, it's a pretty eclectic mix. I've heard rumors that some of the guys (including the Cape Air guys) struggle a bit in training, but since I'm just a reserve guy that rarely flies, I don't know for sure. If it's true, I could see them altering the requirements, but high time doesn't necessarily mean that they'll pass training. I had a buddy who's sim partner was a super senior XJ -900 CA. He barely made it through, and was going to have to have extra line checks every few months to check his progress. Last I heard, he was on an "extended LOA." So, high time doesn't necessarily translate into passing. Good attitude and work ethic have a bit more to do with it....
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His problem wasn't flight time. Frankly, I'm shocked that he was a captain for Mesaba. His goal, apparently, is to come back from Med leave and go straight to the bus. Eh, good luck with that...


(And he was kindof a jerk, so he gets no sympathy from any of us in his class...)
 
L-16B said:
I don't know why he didn't come out to the Sheraton dfw bar with my captain and I a few months back. I would have bought him a cab ride home.
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He sent me a tweet and said it was a miscommunication. He had dinner at his house for you and wanted to know what you and 'Hot Wheels' thought about the white hats.
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
His problem wasn't flight time. Frankly, I'm shocked that he was a captain for Mesaba. His goal, apparently, is to come back from Med leave and go straight to the bus. Eh, good luck with that...


(And he was kindof a jerk, so he gets no sympathy from any of us in his class...)
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We had our 5% too
 
Soul Brotha' said:
Starting next JB window, "5000TT with 1000 TPIC." This is what I was told by one of the guys who does the app/interview stuff. Straight shooter and also a friend of mine.
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That's what I've heard as well. Honestly, I think we're gonna limit ourselves with those requirements and miss out on some quality talent that would likely fit in here. The flip side is, we'll get narrowed down to a lot of applicants that WON'T fit with the culture here. Then we'll be forced to either a) take the guys that aren't quite a fit a jetBlue or b) fly understaffed and cancel flights. They're already having issues getting lines out on time in the summer. There are a lot of quality FOs with near a decade of experience that have hit the glass ceiling at the regionals. CA time is VERY valuable, but I don't think it should be a limiting factor in getting an interview. I'd say anyone with 5000TT and 2000SIC with the right attitude would be a valid applicant.

Plus, with our current PEA, I don't think we're to the point where we can be as selective as say a Delta or American when it comes to applicants. The guys that don't fit in are gonna fill the holes for a couple of years in the right seat and bail, which is NOT what we want. Maybe after we get our first contract, we'll see where we stand. But with other majors hiring with similar (or lower) reqs, we're gonna have a hard time getting quality guys with our retirement and health care based on "We plan to get better down the road." Or we'll get them and they'll leave in 6 months to a year.
 
kellwolf said:
That's what I've heard as well. Honestly, I think we're gonna limit ourselves with those requirements and miss out on some quality talent that would likely fit in here. The flip side is, we'll get narrowed down to a lot of applicants that WON'T fit with the culture here. Then we'll be forced to either a) take the guys that aren't quite a fit a jetBlue or b) fly understaffed and cancel flights. They're already having issues getting lines out on time in the summer. There are a lot of quality FOs with near a decade of experience that have hit the glass ceiling at the regionals. CA time is VERY valuable, but I don't think it should be a limiting factor in getting an interview. I'd say anyone with 5000TT and 2000SIC with the right attitude would be a valid applicant.

Plus, with our current PEA, I don't think we're to the point where we can be as selective as say a Delta or American when it comes to applicants. The guys that don't fit in are gonna fill the holes for a couple of years in the right seat and bail, which is NOT what we want. Maybe after we get our first contract, we'll see where we stand. But with other majors hiring with similar (or lower) reqs, we're gonna have a hard time getting quality guys with our retirement and health care based on "We plan to get better down the road." Or we'll get them and they'll leave in 6 months to a year.
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Your assessment is better then most at this company. For all those applying the 5000/1000 was just what gets your app noticed unless you have an in. Still apply if you meet the bare mins. ALPA winning was a key factor in this decision according to my friend.
 
This problem of guys leaving JetBlue won't simply disappear though. Sure, it appears a fair number of you folks here on JC that went there give off this sense of happiness until retirement. I don't doubt that JetBlue is a great company, I know it is. If I didn't believe in the culture and brand, I wouldn't have applied - or keep updating my applied. Speaking even more personally now, your CMO is a smart man and I have greatly enjoyed discussing marketing, branding, and such matters with him. Even as an outsider I trust his wisdom and vision for the brand - but even more so I trust the leadership team there.

But, from a pilot standpoint, it's going to be difficult to hold onto pilots when the top three or four really start churning the gears. The appeal, as much as some like to say it's not that awesome, of flying wide bodies across the ocean is still very strong with a lot of folks.

Sure, perhaps only a small minority of us will ever get to really do that. And sure, domestic point to point to hub to point to hub stuff is the beez-neez to some - but the mixture of fleets, the mixture of trips, the various opportunities to not work a lot and still make legit coin (yes, I said legit coin) is very appealing to folks. Even if they only come to JBU for a few years, I couldn't fault someone for departing Organization A for Organization B when B provides greater earning potential and retirement stability (only two small 'reasons').

Yeah, the staffing nightmare that may (or may not) happen could challenge the operation. So, what is it that JBU is - as an organization - doing to build a strong level of loyalty from its pilots? Especially when even you guys here are proclaiming significant concern over the future staffing environment.

In what way(s) does JBU improve the organizational culture to the point that JBU pilots who are not heavily invested in spending 20+ years there say "Okay, this is it now. This is where I want to be." For those of you who are already committed, step out of the "committed" shoes for a moment and share what it is you believe your organization needs to do to get more guys committed.
 
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I'd say the same thing any airline has to do, treat people like humans and pay them what you should with decent benefits.

Yeah, some guys will still want to fly transcon, and that's cool. JetBlue was always going to be a stepping stone for them if that's their goal, and I say good luck. Everyone deserves to have a shot at the job they want to have rather than just settle. That goes double if they're senior to me and triple if they're in MCO.

For guys that live in BOS or MCO, it's a tough decision to leave driving to work. Guys that live in South FL, LAX or NY (or commute there anyway), they're more likely to be the ones making a decision at some point. Even with retirements, it's a gamble. If Delta decides to ditch frequency and run two 757s on a route instead of 4 737s (or farm the 737 routes out to a CRJ-900), you could be looking at slow attrition rather than the "You'll be a wide body CA in 7 years" I've heard from some people. No doubt, for now at least, they've got better pay and benefits, but it's still a gamble. The rules on chasing an upgrade apply at the majors just like they do at the regionals: don't.

Are we still gonna be our own airline in 5 years? Who knows? Maybe, maybe not. That was the main reason I supported a union: merger protection just in case. Depending on who and if someone buys us, someone could jump ship only to find out they'd have better seniority if they'd stayed.

Basically, it's all a individual decision. If going elsewhere fits your life, then you should go for it. The airline, I think, needs to put out a package that will retain the most people, and if think they will in the end. You'll never be able to attract and keep everyone, though.
 
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