Endeavor Flow for new hires

bafanguy said:
What's the chance the webmaster can ask for approval to publish the memo itself with FAQs ? Has Endeavor also put out a version under its own letterhead ?
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Ehh, who would I ask?

And I have everything on Endeavor letter head, but I haven't checked it against what was said in this thread.
 
pete2800 said:
I disagree.

To be eligible for this program, you'd have to serve as an Endeavor Captain for 2 years, as well as meet some other requirements. Limited failures, no disciplinary letters, etc. When was the most junior Captain at Endeavor hired? APC says 2008... and currently people are being downgraded. 6 year upgrades and rising. So 8 years minimum to "flow." Also, Delta can cancel the program at any time.


I predict that most people will see through this. They might get a few gullible ones, but I doubt it will be significant.
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In 2005 I was hired at an airline that just lost its' contract with its major partner, and was downsizing from 88 aircraft to 70. Upgrade times were predicted to be in the range of a decade if not longer.

I upgraded in 30 months.
 
Cool deal kids.

Go along now, apply to Pinnacle. You'll make mommy and daddy so very proud wearing your Delta, I mean Pinnacle, uniform.

Enjoy the handcuffs. I'll be interested to see the hiring rates, if this ever really happens, of those who decide to go it on their own and on their own merits. You know, when Delta is hiring folks from other airlines.
 
Derg said:
Ehh, who would I ask?

And I have everything on Endeavor letter head, but I haven't checked it against what was said in this thread.
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[No opinion of this matter implied or expressed]

Don't know who. :confused: Being able to read both versions of the announcement would be helpful to those without access to the company websites.

I thought perhaps there was more than one version of the announcement since the statement in quotes in post #77 doesn't appear in the DL version of the memo. The language addressing the same concept isn't as fuzzy from Dickson. And words will be important when the dust settles.
 
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wheelsup said:
In 2005 I was hired at an airline that just lost its' contract with its major partner, and was downsizing from 88 aircraft to 70. Upgrade times were predicted to be in the range of a decade if not longer.

I upgraded in 30 months.
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Yep. And in 2005 a bunch of people came to Horizon, when the upgrade time was about 3 years.


They still haven't upgraded.


I'm just trying to point out the contradiction of regional airlines and long-term planning. Even if your 5-year figure is theoretically correct... how many regional airlines were around 5 years ago that don't exist today?
 
pete2800 said:
Yep. And in 2005 a bunch of people came to Horizon, when the upgrade time was about 3 years.


They still haven't upgraded.


I'm just trying to point out the contradiction of regional airlines and long-term planning. Even if your 5-year figure is theoretically correct... how many regional airlines were around 5 years ago that don't exist today?
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OK...I really don't understand what your point is here.

Things change was mine.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
My thoughts exactly. Pilot Pushing 2.0.
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I knew YX wouldn't hire me as I was told "Son, you have a degree, you'll be at NWA before the ink on your DC-9 checkout dries" (true story), but the guys that were trying to flow were deadly afraid of getting anything on their record and it completely affected their decision making.

One of the chief pilots would threaten to throw things on your employment record for sport, primarily because it would squelch your ability to flow to the "heavy" iron (DC9-10).

The agreement reads like it's highly ambiguous, has a lot of holes, but is largely a big "behave, stay under the radar, do what we tell you to do and MAYBE you'll be one of the lucky ones… down the road… unless "mama" turns it off overnight… maybe… but we'll see… don't get in trouble!"
 
I wouldn't expect DALPA to expend any negotiating capital in killing this thing, but I would hope that they express their displeasure with it to management as it is very detrimental to other ALPA pilots (at Endeavor). That said... the whole thing is a joke and the language has so many holes in it that I wouldn't expect to see much come from it.

EDIT: Todd beat me by 6 seconds.
 
turbojet28 said:
Is Lester still working at 9E crew scheduling?
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That was one of the good ones. If I was on PM and needed something, I'd call back and hang up until I got him. He had his Pinnacle Moments like everyone in SOC, but he was one of the better schedulers. The AM ones? I likely wouldn't put them out if they were on fire and screaming in an alley on Beale St.

Reading this agreement, I don't see WHY they can't just offer it to everyone at Endeavor that meet the qualifications. It's still seniority based and it's not even a REQUIREMENT for new hires. It's optional. Then again, it could also fall under the same things we've seen with the SSP. If Delta feels like they want to, you can do your EtD interview, they can tell you "no," and now you're just another Endeavor FO.....

I don't like the "do what we say or we're yanking your Delta job" threat, though. If you're sick, you call in sick. But if you get a letter in your file, there goes your Delta class date for a while.

The whole thing just smacks of "Well, you're good enough to do the job of flying our passengers from JFK-MSP in a 9E CRJ-900, but you're just not good enough to do the same job in a Delta 737. But that guy we hired right out of ERAU 8 years after you is!"


And on the who would still be a CA question, I was hired in March of 2006. Guys hired a few months after me are back to being -900 FOs now, so I'm not sure APC takes into account either the most recent displacement or fences that occurred due to the merger. It's likely some Colgan guys are still CAs while senior 9E guys are being displaced. I'm not 100% sure since the only contact I have with that place now is threads like this, the 4 people I still know there and when I have to email payroll to get paycheck stubs from 2011 and 2012.
 
Derg said:
I don't even think it was dropped on DALPA's desk. I'll check with Puppy though.
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I'm sure it wasn't, but I'd hope that once they were made aware of it, they weighed in on the matter. I understand that pilot hiring is a company function and I wouldn't expect a union to have a say in it. However, this program directly impacts fellow union pilots (on another property, but still) and as such I'd expect (or at least hope) that DALPA would make some noise.

That said, after years of being the little ALPA sibling of AAA ALPA I know that being a wholly owned doesn't really mean much to the parent carriers union.
 
Is anyone else blown away at the accuracy in predicting the what and when?! I honestly believed April 1st all over again.

I'm really curious what junior FOs at other companies think about this. Enough to jump ship from RP, PSA, etc?
 
bronco21016 said:
Is anyone else blown away at the accuracy in predicting the what and when?! I honestly believed April 1st all over again.

I'm really curious what junior FOs at other companies think about this. Enough to jump ship from RP, PSA, etc?
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If I already had a seniority number elsewhere, I'd probably stay put. The way Endeavor treats their pilots is pretty well known, and you have to play nice in order to keep your Delta slot on top of the other stuff. I can see an unscrupulous, management sided CP using this as a threat against a pilot. "Take this plane, or there's a letter in your file. You do still want to go to Delta, right?" Depending on how new the guy is, I could even see it working. Then there's the pay, and you still have to upgrade, etc, etc.

If you're at a better regional, I'd stay put rather than jumping ship. With retirements, you might even get on at Delta or elsewhere faster. Remember, there's still 65% of each class at Delta that's NOT subject to this deal.....
 
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