Emirates near disaster on takeoff

TWP said:
To each their own my friend. If you’d put your kids on the 250 hour wonder pilots first revenue flight then nobody can argue with your faith in the system. I’m personally not comfortable with it.
Click to expand...
Come on now!
The 250 hour FO was the standard for 40+ years until suddenly it wasn’t.
And I don’t think anyone can produce a legitimate argument that taking a 250 hr pilot that has been training to 121 standards (Gnd school, sim, in turbojet aircraft, etc) from PPL to multi/Comm isn‘t a better hire than someone with 1450hrs of 172 time with 50 of multi walking through the door.

We’ve discussed this here before, hours don’t matter when it comes to pilot ability, common sense, maturity, or professionalism. Want to guess how many flight hours the “moew”ers and “brandon” idiots have? I wouldn’t voluntarily let my kids fly with any of them either!

P.S. I personally know a pilot with more than 1,800hrs and another that is a CFI/II that has two type ratings with a little over 1,000hrs; neither of the guys would I let my kids fly with. The CFI flies out of N J and the other pilot is retired (thank God!).
 
Just purely anecdotal, but I'm glad I had a chance to be in charge and scare myself for about 1,500 hours before I was in charge of a jet with 70+ people behind me. When I upgraded to captain I was also grateful for every instance I had an experienced FO to lean on.
 
There is no Boeing procedure to ever set 0 in the MCP altitude selector. Any airline that does that is not following Boeing standard procedures from the FCOM or FCTM. It was never a procedure at Emirates.

Emirated did away with the Takeoff Review since I left (not sure why), but there are at least 3 times that the MCP altitude should be checked during pre-flight and before engine start. Why and how this crew missed all of that is a mystery that will come out in the eventual investigation. The old Takeoff Review would have caught the mistake for sure.

I know a bit more information, but I'll just say it will be interesting to see how some possible dynamics between the crew played into this incident or if that will even come out. Not sure how if any of these crew were newly returned from a layoff during Covid and how recent they were. That could be another factor.
 
NovemberEcho said:
Anytime someone takes off with their mode c off or entire transponder off I can’t help but wonder what other checklist items they skipped over.
Click to expand...
It’s intentional. Can’t bust us on the TEB departures if you don‘t know our altitude.

Kidding, but, in many planes it’s not always a checklist item, and with TCAS now most of them have moved it to line up checks to prevent congestion and false alerts, so not much to skip.
 
typhoonpilot said:
There is no Boeing procedure to ever set 0 in the MCP altitude selector. Any airline that does that is not following Boeing standard procedures from the FCOM or FCTM. It was never a procedure at Emirates.

Emirated did away with the Takeoff Review since I left (not sure why), but there are at least 3 times that the MCP altitude should be checked during pre-flight and before engine start. Why and how this crew missed all of that is a mystery that will come out in the eventual investigation. The old Takeoff Review would have caught the mistake for sure.

I know a bit more information, but I'll just say it will be interesting to see how some possible dynamics between the crew played into this incident or if that will even come out. Not sure how if any of these crew were newly returned from a layoff during Covid and how recent they were. That could be another factor.
Click to expand...

737NG:

So if you’re flying a RNAV or a LOC approach into SFO or JFK, what do you set in the window when you’re in LNAV and VNAV PTH and cleared for the approach?
 
What is not being stated is that 250 hour F.O. in the B777 gets a minimum of 118 sectors of line training under the supervision of an experienced instructor. Maybe that number has come down from when I was there now that they do training in the Phenoms first, but they will still get a lot of line training experience before being released to the line to fly with regular captains. By that time they will have closer to 1000 hours total time and at least 500 in the B777.

The problem from when I was there (anecdotally) is that the standards have dropped. I spent 8 years in the Emirates training department and wrote the two courses that brought the cadet pilots onto the B777 fleet. So I have some knowledge as to their level of training and what the graduation requirements were. We had no problem dropping pilots who were not performing to the expected standard, no matter what their nationality, and that was supported by training management.

The program was very robust and someone who graduated via a final line check to operate as a first officer was very much capable of the position. Were they the most experience pilot at that point? = no, but they certainly had a solid foundation. I rode on Emirates as a passenger all the time and never worried about my safety and would still do so today.
 
Last time I checked, ADS-B transponders must be on for all operations including taxi. Has something changed?
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
737NG:

So if you’re flying a RNAV or a LOC approach into SFO or JFK, what do you set in the window when you’re in LNAV and VNAV PTH and cleared for the approach?
Click to expand...

You set the published minimums. Once you are 300 feet below the missed approach alttiude you set the missed approach altitude, the airplane remains in VNAV PTH:

When the FMC is “on approach”, the following features are available:
• the IAS/MACH window can be opened and the command speed can be
set while VNAV remains in VNAV PTH descent; VNAV commands the
set speed
• the MCP altitude can be set above the airplane altitude for the missed
approach. When the MCP altitude setting is at least 300 feet above the
current airplane altitude, VNAV continues to command a descent


Sorry, that is from the B777 FCOM. The applicable page in the current Boeing B737NG FCOM is Chapter 11, 11.31.39
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top