BigZ
Well-Known Member
Now I'm confused.
Mustang's got g1000 - since when is that exo-centric?
Mustang's got g1000 - since when is that exo-centric?
Boris Badenov
Fortis Leader
Yeah, what? Are they putting exo-centric instruments in Murican planes? WHY? When was the last time someone crashed because they were using the same thing they had used since they were a student pilot? I'm sure the Rooskies had their reasons for adopting an exo system, but Primacy is far more important than whatever supposed improvements come from one system or the other, surely? I certainly don't envy Russian pilots trying to go the other direction when Aeroflot buys Boeings or Airbii (BigZ, Fencer, want to weigh in?), why would anyone beg that problem when they weren't economically required to???
I'd say the probability that I'd biff it is 50%+ if I sat down in the plane I fly all the time and the horizon moved, but the airplane moved even more and WTF IS GOING ON HERE I DON'T UNDERSTAND KABOOM!
I'd say the probability that I'd biff it is 50%+ if I sat down in the plane I fly all the time and the horizon moved, but the airplane moved even more and WTF IS GOING ON HERE I DON'T UNDERSTAND KABOOM!
bucksmith
Did you lock the doors?
So, I’m suppose to be learning an airplane here, so I did a little research. Turns out the U2 does the same thing with the “backwards” speed tape. There had been lots of discussion on this topic as glass cockpits were being introduced and most have gone the direction that we all know and love. The best explanation I’ve read was from a former U2 pilot, explaining that like the altimeter with higher numbers on top, the speed tape with higher numbers on bottom is more intuitive as you would move the nose in the direction of the desired outcome. Wanna go up, pitch the nose up. Want to slow down, pitch the nose up. With bugs in place, I could see this now might be kind of cool. Looking forward to utilizing my new found understanding in the sim tomorrow. Maybe no train wrecks in my head whilst maintaining ref and 10.
Boris Badenov
Fortis Leader
The various systems in the DA50s, Hawkers, and CL600 series play a little musical chairs with the speed-tape too. Can't remember which is which at the moment, but some move upwards, some down, some move the speed at which you're travelling, some move the other possible speeds. I found switching between them absolutely maddening, and that's speed, which isn't as exigent as orientation towards the ground, plus with speed you've got a nice safe old AOA gauge you can look at if you have a deer-in-headlights moment. Changing the A/I's fundamental method of function seems utterly crackers. You figure some guy in a windowless room figured this one out over a period of years, undisturbed by talking to anyone outside of said room.
BigZ
Well-Known Member
Don't look at me, @Boris Badenov
The only thing I flew with a weird attitude indicator was Yak-52, and for the life of me I don't remember what banked where there.
Dirt and sky colors are fascinating though (see attached pic googled from the interwebs), so I fixated on it for a minute and then figured I'll just treat it as inop.
PS Fun trivia 101 - the white line down the dash is your visual ailerons neutral indicator - align the stick with the vertical line - boom, ailerons neutral. Cool, huh?
The only thing I flew with a weird attitude indicator was Yak-52, and for the life of me I don't remember what banked where there.
Dirt and sky colors are fascinating though (see attached pic googled from the interwebs), so I fixated on it for a minute and then figured I'll just treat it as inop.
PS Fun trivia 101 - the white line down the dash is your visual ailerons neutral indicator - align the stick with the vertical line - boom, ailerons neutral. Cool, huh?
Boris Badenov
Fortis Leader
Well, I mean, technically that would be proper UKRANIAN attitude indicator ops, wouldn't it? I'm sorry, I had to. It was too easy. You walked right in to it. Please forgive me.
Also that gave me whatever the spatial-orientation analogue for dyslexia is IMMEDIATELY. Nope, nope, nope.
Also that gave me whatever the spatial-orientation analogue for dyslexia is IMMEDIATELY. Nope, nope, nope.
skatergeek
Beet Farmer
That is super confusing. Nope.
BigZ
Well-Known Member
The current state of affairs over there is to belittle things created during the evil soviet times, sell what remains for scraps and pocket the spoils.
Ukrainian Government orders Antonov to be liquidated – Aeronautics Online
Town where I went to school has a naval engineering college, used to be one of the best ones in the USSR - this year enrollment for shipbuilding degrees is something like 7.7% of capacity. Which is understandable to an extent - the industry is being destroyed, why bother with relevant education.
Ukraine Dismantling Its Own Shipyard Industry to Try to Exact Revenge on Russia
I can keep going about the rocket engine manufacturing and jet engine manufacturing, but you get the idea and it is off topic as is. So naaaaah, that thing in the video is sure as ***t not Ukrainian
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
No wonder they seem to crash all the time.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Think of the difference between an attitude indicator that shows the horizon move versus one that is fixed and shows the airplane move.
How is a confusion possible between Western and Russian Attitude Indicators?
I don’t think thats the only one. I thought another Russian one, the aircraft would be fixed-straight and the horizon bar is what would dip to show a bank.
z987k
Well-Known Member
Now let's throw in the pure stupidity that is QFE.
ahw01
Well-Known Member
You gotta love QFE, field elevation = 0
z987k
Well-Known Member
And that mountain you're flying next to is negative something I guess, but who knows, because you have no reference point to it.
ahw01
Well-Known Member
Vfr only, we're not sadists
ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
You know I wonder if the cold weather correction is “better” under QFE?
It might make sense in Siberia in January.
BigZ
Well-Known Member
I have flown both G1000 and G3000 extensively and have never seen a exo-centric mode on either. Literally no idea how NTSB came up with that. Old school graphics/synthetic vision, single cue FD, double cue - yellow airplane symbol stays, horizon moves.
D
Deleted member 27505
Guest
I've been wondering the same thing. I don't think Garmin offers even some deeply sunk menu option that would allow a PFD to be configured to present an "exo-centric" view in the "Russian" sense.
The terminology and definitions around the terminology seem squishy. Ego/Exo/Russian/Synthetic Vision: I don’t think this terminology is broadly understood per specific definitions. I think meanings are getting conflated and it’s probable something got misconstrued or lost in translation between investigator and writer in the drafting of the NTSB report.
The best I can guess is that somewhere in the drafting of this report someone conflated the term "exo-centric" with the term "synthetic vision". "Exo-centric" meaning a view of the airplane from a vantage point outside the airplane. "Synthetic vision" meaning a really detailed view of the world outside the airplane from the perspective of the pilot sitting inside the airplane.
In any case, I don’t think “Russian vs Western” comes into play here at all.
These pics show my personal take on what the terms mean.
Ego
Exo
Synthetic (misidentified as Exo?)