Eagle vote 70% NO with 92% participation

ATN_Pilot said:
I don't have the disdain for the lifers that others do. I think their opinions are valuable, even if I don't agree.
Click to expand...

I don't have a disdain for them. But I'm certainly not going to take it in the pills for them either. I have a difficult time feeling bad for someone who had years and years of a very livable income that didn't prepare to move on or at least prepare a backup plan. These are the same guys I shared a cockpit with when I was on first year pay. When gas was well over $5/gal in ATL (if you could even find it) I had one guy telling me how chapped his ass was trying to figure out what second boat he should get.

Sorry, my pay has been more or less stagnant for the last 5 years. I'm ready to start living like an adult.
 
Screaming_Emu said:
I don't have a disdain for them. But I'm certainly not going to take it in the pills for them either. I have a difficult time feeling bad for someone who had years and years of a very livable income that didn't prepare to move on or at least prepare a backup plan. These are the same guys I shared a cockpit with when I was on first year pay. When gas was well over $5/gal in ATL (if you could even find it) I had one guy telling me how chapped his ass was trying to figure out what second boat he should get.

Sorry, my pay has been more or less stagnant for the last 5 years. I'm ready to start living like an adult.
Click to expand...

Über like. The last 5 captains I have flown with never even applied to another airline.
 
mastermags said:
"Those 717's should be ours!"

It amazes me how some guys can spend 30 years in a job and have absolutely no idea how their industry works.
Click to expand...

I remember flying with one back before we furloughed the second time. I was in the class that started the day before the contract was signed. I was talking about how I really hoped the no furlough clause was going to hold up.

Kid not the guy I was flying with was like "ASA has never furloughed...and we never will."

I said "where have you been? We just furloughed a few months ago and we're about to do it again!"
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Sorry, man, but you're out of your element here. You're looking at it too simplistically.

The duck gave the correct answer on this. There is a huge oversupply of 50 seat airplanes. Several very large 50-seat contracts are about to come due for renewal, also. The supply of 70-78 airplanes is just about right. What the legacies really want and need is 90+ seat airplanes, and they aren't getting that scope relief outside of bankruptcy, so that flying has to be done in-house.
Click to expand...

You did hit the nail on the head here - all mainline will care about is moving as much as they can to the lowest bidder.

The supply of airplanes is not terribly relevant. Old airplanes are like motor oil - they get bought/sold/recycled. No doubt a bunch will get parked/sold to EMEA/whatever. The 50 seaters sold like crazy when scope at the time made them both attractive and profitable. After using that stick to prevent hiring for enough years, enough scope was given up that now 76 seaters are "even better." What does the end game look like? Once it is 76 seaters vs. 130 at mainline?

At my company (not in aviation), 95% of everything is outsourced "regional feed." Nothing is left "at the career jobs in house." We sell a brand, but the actual work - well, it isn't our employees doing it, if management can possibly avoid it.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Probably not, since at the time he was using it to describe why the regionals were so important to Northwest Airlines. But hey, I'm sure you know more about running airlines than the industry's most talented and successful CEO. :sarcasm:
Click to expand...

All hail the CEO. Never said I did just disagreeing with an earlier example. Don't tell Rich!
 
Screaming_Emu said:
I would agree, but anyone who didn't see ACA or Comair and rethink that plan...
Click to expand...

Agreed. It's amazing the number of guys who earn 6 figures but live paycheck to paycheck. I'm never in favor of anybody taking a pay cut, but the reality is that if you're senior at FFD carrier, you're squarely in the sights of management when the term "longevity problem" starts getting used and if you don't adjust your habits then i don't really feel sorry for you.

On the other hand, the guys who have kids in college or who soon will be, live within their means but who are too old (late starters, ex military, etc) to consider a move to a major...well...I feel for them. this is bad. You deserve better. I hope you can make something work out which is acceptable for your family.
 
Screaming_Emu said:
I remember flying with one back before we furloughed the second time. I was in the class that started the day before the contract was signed. I was talking about how I really hoped the no furlough clause was going to hold up.

Kid not the guy I was flying with was like "ASA has never furloughed...and we never will."

I said "where have you been? We just furloughed a few months ago and we're about to do it again!"
Click to expand...

That's not as bad as one of my buddies who, prior to the first furlough, said, "Man my credit hours are down because we are overstaffed! When are they going to furlough so I can get my pay back up?"

I was stunned that someone could be so callous and uncaring for fellow pilots, especially since we were an ALPA carrier. I said, "Wouldn't you rather get guarantee and keep everyone on property?" He said no.

Brotherhood my ass...
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
That's not as bad as one of my buddies who, prior to the first furlough, said, "Man my credit hours are down because we are overstaffed! When are they going to furlough so I can get my pay back up?"

I was stunned that someone could be so callous and uncaring for fellow pilots, especially since we were an ALPA carrier. I said, "Wouldn't you rather get guarantee and keep everyone on property?" He said no.

Brotherhood my ass...
Click to expand...
On the train in DFW, 100ish pilots on the street.

A coworker appears sporting an ALPA lanyard. I forget specifically what part of The Union.

"Hey man, how're ya?"

"Good, picking up some OT today..."

"Mkay!"

(If you've got to do it to feed your family, by all means, of course, and so on.)
 
Autothrust Blue said:
On the train in DFW, 100ish pilots on the street.

A coworker appears sporting an ALPA lanyard. I forget specifically what part of The Union.

"Hey man, how're ya?"

"Good, picking up some OT today..."

"Mkay!"

(If you've got to do it to feed your family, by all means, of course, and so on.)
Click to expand...

finish-him.gif
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
I'm tired of hearing that excuse. You know, a guy who scabs is also simply trying to feed his family and pay the mortgage/bills. Otherwise, why else would he do it?
Click to expand...

You are not correct.

Sadly, I don't have the attention span to circular-debate you on this for two weeks.

But for everyone else reading this, Cherokee_Cruiser has come to a factual conclusion here, just devil's advocacy.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top