Eagle vote 70% NO with 92% participation

Boyington said:
My point is that the flying may become more diversified, but will likely not have fewer flights servicing the same area. At the very least, it will not be cut by 2/3. 4 flights instead of 5, sure. But 1 flight instead of 3, never.
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What you have to remember is that airlines don't care about YOUR company and how they make money, they care about THEIR business. If that means one flight per day into an airport, and it still makes them money, then they'll go to one flight per day.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
No, Delta simply wouldn't raise their rates by $5. Their yield managers (and yield management software) knows better than to raise fares just to give pilots some more money.
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I was simply using your example that they did, not saying they would. You can't turn your own statement back at me. It was a scenario posed by you.
 
FlyDutchman said:
I was simply using your example that they did, not saying they would. You can't turn your own statement back at me. It was a scenario posed by you.
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Actually, it was @Maurus's scenario. He suggested that the entire problem could all be solved with a "few dollar" fare increase. I just pointed out that that's not exactly how things work in the real world.
 
This feed cutting has been increasing my flying substantially. We were utilized only for out of the way airports and emergency trips. Now we are used for most trips because it is to difficult to get to meetings with one flight a day or multiple connections taking up a whole day. I don't think this is as great as pilots think it is going to be. Congrats on the no vote I do support it.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Trip7, you know I love ya, but you're out of your frickin' mind on this. You have zero leverage. The legacy carriers don't care about the pilot shortage, because they could easily reduce their regional feed by 50% without even feeling it. Don't overestimate your hand.
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Unbelievable. I've been saying for *years* that regional pilots have no leverage precisely for the fact that they all do outsourced contract feed that can easily be transferred to another cheaper carrier pretty much at any moment despite "iron clad signed agreements." And every time, ATN_Pilot spent pages explaining that wasn't true, and how ALPA is great for regionals, and that there is leverage. Now fast forward to today, and here you have it. ATN pilot finally admits the truth. It only took 7 years to admit but it's a step in the right direction. And as for ATN's comment about how this isn't good news for a 50 year old Eagle lifer, please. That guy made his career decision to stay at a regional airline that does outsourced work. Just because that gamble doesn't work doesn't mean it isn't the right thing to turn down this concessionary contract. I'm proud of the good Eagle folks who voted NO on this concessionary contract. Congrats to you guys for standing up!
 
PeanuckleCRJ said:
Check out the ATL airbus bid packs! I did 4 legs yesterday, and have a couple more trips with 4 leg days coming up, plus a 5 leg day.

Most trips I never go west of the mississippi!
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What's up with that? I was surprised to see your TRI layover. I thought that was a "small" airport with RJ service. Honestly though, I'm happy to see Delta mainline taking that kind of flying back.

ZapBrannigan said:
Wasn't it you that told me (quite some time ago) that Walmart should pay its associates "a living wage"?

If that wasn't you, then my apologies. If it WAS you, then how is this different?
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Exactly Zap. He's the same guy who also said if an airline can't pay market wages then they shouldn't be around (in regards to an airline like VX). Then he went into a tangent about how in his real estate business he pays them market competitive rates and that he shouldn't be doing what he is doing if he couldn't afford to pay them as such. Now in this thread it seems he's done a complete 180.

Like you just said, how is this different?
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
And as for ATN's comment about how this isn't good news for a 50 year old Eagle lifer, please. That guy made his career decision to stay at a regional airline that does outsourced work. Just because that gamble doesn't work doesn't mean it isn't the right thing to turn down this concessionary contract.
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Did I miss something?
 
ATN_Pilot said:
I'm not aware of a regional airline that doesn't pay a living wage. You can look at living wages for every state (and county) calculated by MIT on their living wage calculator web site. For example, Florida has an average living wage of $21,042. Georgia is $19,200. New York is $23,929. Etc. Every state is in the high teens or low twenties, which is what a first year FO is making at a regional.

To be clear, I'm not defending regional airline pay scales. They're atrocious. But they are a living wage.

And please don't call them "associates." They're employees. "Associate" is what you call someone when you're trying to trick him into believing that you respect him when you really don't.
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Sidebar.

You're a Democrat, for Christ's sake. Act like it. Don't pretend that $22,000 is a living wage in most major metropolitan areas, which is where most of us regional FO guys are domiciled. Just because it happens to be above the Federal poverty line (which doesn't include transportation, information technology, communications etc.) or a State poverty line (for states that are inclined to understate economic reality) does NOT mean it's a living wage. I'd call what I make now a living wage for California, which is at least 1.5x the figures you've cited.
 
I suppose I didn't realize ATN was saying outright that the regionals have no leverage. Well screw it, why even have a union? What a freaking stupid statement. The regionals have more leverage now than they've had in years.... there is minimal upflow due to minimal flight training and stricter entry rules, mainline is taking flying back (my first captain seat at mainline will be replacing 50 seaters with 717s), and so on and so forth.

I believe another reading of Sam Weigel's "the insanity of concessions" article would be good for you, ATN.
 
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