Eagle Rumors

Firebird2XC

Well-Known Member
The Rumor Mill hath generated new news:

Eagle may be hiring by March 2009. A potential sign of good news for poolies and would-be RJ/ATR drivers.

Merely keeping up with attrition or a sign of potential growth?
Who knows. But still, job opportunities for those looking to to burn some more JET-A. Good news for the rest of us as well, as furloughs in the meantime would seem a bit silly.

Word has it we have a new Contract Amendment TA as well. The merits of said contract amendments are still highly debatable as nobody has seen the final language yet. Soon enough.

That is all.
 

BobDDuck

Island Bus Driver
Fellow Eagle pilots:
Today, the Eagle MEC Negotiating Committee reached a tentative agreement (TA) with Eagle management in the contractual amendment process.
After months of preparation, research and meetings with management, the committee is satisfied that they’ve negotiated the best possible solution for the Eagle pilot group. The initial details of the agreement can be found on the Eagle ALPA website at http://eagle.alpa.org.
This TA will soon be presented to the MEC for ratification. When ratified, it will be the last amendment round agreement in our contractual process. When our contract expires at the end of 2012, we will return to the traditional method of contractual negotiations – Section 6 of the Railway Labor Act.
In 2007 the Negotiating Committee began polling the Eagle pilot group and researching the best ways to obtain the goals and priorities of our pilots. Polling data and input from pilots showed that our group wanted the negotiating committee to do two things: identify and improve quality of life provisions and avoid any contractual concessions.
As we are all aware, our industry finds itself in difficult times. Oil prices have been all over the headlines, along with news of pilot furloughs, capacity reductions, bankruptcies, and even liquidations. Many airlines are asking if they still have a viable business model. The news at our airline involved a possible sale or spinoff. In fact, our theme for these negotiations became “Not For Sale!” While management schemes might come and go, the value of a professional pilot serving in the cockpit remains constant. In 2008 our contract was “Not For Sale!”
With this in mind, the MEC tasked the Negotiating Committee with this mission: Bring us an agreement that increases quality of life wherever possible and includes no concessions. This tentative agreement accomplishes that mission.
While certain items we would all love to see were simply not supported by the rest of the industry, this TA addresses many improvements in ways that add real dollars to pilots’ pockets, including value of the day compensation, improved vacation payout, and better access to sick leave. The TA makes a long overdue improvement to IOE instructor pay. It also improves the basis from which disability and life insurance benefits are calculated.
The TA introduces several significant quality of life improvements. It improves the trip trading process – giving pilots more tools to improve their schedules. It creates volunteer lists for open time, reserve pilots and check airmen, allowing pilots more flexibility in communicating their schedule preferences. The TA allows pilots to accomplish a portion of their long term and recurrent training cycles from home, allowing more time with their families. There are improvements for simulator instructors, who have not seen any contractual improvements since 1997. We have also codified the Fatigue Review Board guaranteeing a pilot’s right to have the circumstances which led to his fatigue reviewed and addressed.
The tentative agreement also keeps two major contractual elements in place: Per Diem rates and 401k contributions. These two items alone provide a benefit to Eagle pilots. Protecting these two items was a high priority for the committee and represents a major success in this amendment round.
A summary of the TA will soon be available for viewing on our website. In approximately one week, we will have video explanations of changes made to each section. We will then set up daily all-pilot teleconferences in order to receive feedback and answer pilot questions.
Thank you for your support for your MEC and for your Negotiating Committee during this contractual amendment round.
Fraternally,
Herb Mark
MEC Chairman

 

ready2fly

Well-Known Member
Got a copy of the TA today (draft) and from what I read, the only improvement is to the pay for IOE instructors. Line pilots/reserve pilots get exactly what we have now.
 

CFIT99

I'm probably commenting ironically...
maybe hiring in march! well thats good news for all those swimming with me...since they already spent 10k on a bunch of us already at Jet orientation...but i guess in the grand scheme of things thats noot too much money...who knows though

so there isn't going to be any furloughs??? and is boston still closing or is it staying open but at a reduced volume?
 

Firebird2XC

Well-Known Member
Got a copy of the TA today (draft) and from what I read, the only improvement is to the pay for IOE instructors. Line pilots/reserve pilots get exactly what we have now.
Not entirely. If I read it right, we get a little bump.

If the Daily Value is increased in the ways mentioned, it'd mean that Min Guarantee for Lineholders will go from 72 hours to 75. Reserves will get a 75 hour to 78 hour a month Min Guarantee bump.

Essentially, it means those making the least get around $100 month bump for 2nd year or higher FOs. Haven't done the math on the CAs yet.

IAI is how we get our annual pay bumps. Considering we're still waiting on the arbitration of the IAI bump from last year, and the next year will be on top of that, we're all gonna be due some nice back pay at some point.

It's a very, very meager thing- but considering the state of the industry, it's actually a lot better than it could have been.
 

PaulR

Well-Known Member
Got a copy of the TA today (draft) and from what I read, the only improvement is to the pay for IOE instructors. Line pilots/reserve pilots get exactly what we have now.
This was not a full scope negotiation. That happens at the end of this 16 year contract. You will be able to adjust, or talk about adjusting, your payrates at the end of this contract. The amendable date is still a few years away.

Under full section 6 negotiation of the RLA you can open up all part of the contract. Your fellow pilots were working on improving the things they could during this round.
 

ready2fly

Well-Known Member
Not entirely. If I read it right, we get a little bump.

If the Daily Value is increased in the ways mentioned, it'd mean that Min Guarantee for Lineholders will go from 72 hours to 75. Reserves will get a 75 hour to 78 hour a month Min Guarantee bump.

Essentially, it means those making the least get around $100 month bump for 2nd year or higher FOs. Haven't done the math on the CAs yet.

IAI is how we get our annual pay bumps. Considering we're still waiting on the arbitration of the IAI bump from last year, and the next year will be on top of that, we're all gonna be due some nice back pay at some point.

It's a very, very meager thing- but considering the state of the industry, it's actually a lot better than it could have been.
]
You are correct sir!

After re-reading it, that's what the man done did said.

And what makes me sick is that we're all sitting here with our noses up AMR's ass saying "THANK YOU SIR..... MAY I HAVE ANOTHER!! THIS IS AWESOME (considering how bad the industry is... :whatever: )

My friend... this f'ing SUCKS! We look at it and accept it because the aviation world sucks right now.

In the real world, however, people generally try to get paid for what they are worth.

But, not in the aviation world. Hell...pilots want to fly for free to live the dream. :whatever:

What the F ever!

Screw Eagle.

Screw Part 121.

I'm taking the midnight train the F out of here ASAP!

R2F <------ a tad bit bitter about this industry.
 

wzgrza

Well-Known Member
]
You are correct sir!

After re-reading it, that's what the man done did said.

And what makes me sick is that we're all sitting here with our noses up AMR's ass saying "THANK YOU SIR..... MAY I HAVE ANOTHER!! THIS IS AWESOME (considering how bad the industry is... :whatever: )

My friend... this f'ing SUCKS! We look at it and accept it because the aviation world sucks right now.

In the real world, however, people generally try to get paid for what they are worth.

But, not in the aviation world. Hell...pilots want to fly for free to live the dream. :whatever:

What the F ever!

Screw Eagle.

Screw Part 121.

I'm taking the midnight train the F out of here ASAP!

R2F <------ a tad bit bitter about this industry.

Good post, and spot on. Lately I have been super bitter about pay as well, as I am barely making enough to get by. I can't save a dime, and I don't even have a family or kids to support, so for those who do, I don't know how you do it. It's been especially bitter after I had a friend from Europe/Austrailia visit and tell me how much first year F.Os make in those parts.

You spend all this money on a college degree, all this money on flight training and building time, all this time and effort goes into both, and there is no reward for any of it. Next stop is self sponsored Type Ratings, and I bet there will be a line of pilots asking where to sign. The fuelers probably make more then us, the rampers probably make more then us, the gate agents probably make more then us, the TSA makes more then us, some of the full-time McDonalds employees at the airport food court make more then us. Everyone we work around makes more then us, yet their jobs dont carry nearly the amount of responsibility, and education, dedication that ours require.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not miserable. I just think we should get paid what we are worth. Not poverty level wages. 40-45,000$ a year for first year F/O sounds about spot on to me. And don't let anyone try to convince you otherwise.

and to top it off, the public thinks we are billionaires. When you tell someone how much some of us actually make they find it so shocking that they don't even believe it, thats how bad it is. Stupid articles about the most overpaid professions which for some reason we are included in don't help, either.
 

Firebird2XC

Well-Known Member
]
You are correct sir!

After re-reading it, that's what the man done did said.

And what makes me sick is that we're all sitting here with our noses up AMR's ass saying "THANK YOU SIR..... MAY I HAVE ANOTHER!! THIS IS AWESOME (considering how bad the industry is... :whatever: )

My friend... this f'ing SUCKS! We look at it and accept it because the aviation world sucks right now.

In the real world, however, people generally try to get paid for what they are worth.

But, not in the aviation world. Hell...pilots want to fly for free to live the dream. :whatever:

What the F ever!

Screw Eagle.

Screw Part 121.

I'm taking the midnight train the F out of here ASAP!

R2F <------ a tad bit bitter about this industry.

You just gotta wait for it, brother. They're hanging on to every cent they can right now for a few reasons.

One- there wasn't much else they could leverage for pay. The IAI stuff in the contract core language has that locked down.

Two- The rumor of hiring in the spring. AMR wants Eagle to lose some of the top of the seniority list. It's happening- some guys are moving on to greener pastures. Some guys are just moving on. Either way, we're hiring.

Three- With the possibility of larger airframes here at Eagle, they want every inch of pay scale ground they can keep- because expansion means a whole glut of brand new CAs that start at the 9 and 10 year mark. It also means a glut of FOs that suddenly see much, much better schedules.

Don't think of it as pilots not gaining any ground. Think of it as the company cringing for the money they're going to spend on us in the coming year. :)

Patience, man. Our time will come.
 

Gonzo

Well-Known Member
Three- With the possibility of larger airframes here at Eagle, they want every inch of pay scale ground they can keep- because expansion means a whole glut of brand new CAs that start at the 9 and 10 year mark. It also means a glut of FOs that suddenly see much, much better schedules.
If 170's and 190's show up they are going to be in AA not Eagle colors, and we will have AA numbers.
 

subpilot

Squawking 7600
If 170's and 190's show up they are going to be in AA not Eagle colors, and we will have AA numbers.
I agree that would be ideal, but we have very little say in the matter and basically our pilot group will fly whatever AMR tells us to fly. I am a firm believer that you vote with your feet. The problem is that only works if other companies are offering much better working conditions to move on to and if there are not thousands of wannabe airline pilots standing in line to take your job for the same or even worse working conditions. Supply and demand controls the negotiations and right now there is still to much supply of applicants willing to accept anything to get into the right seat. I know I would leave for a better position at another company but I honestly don't see any out there.
 

Nightflight

New Member
I'm swimming in the Eagle pool also, but just my humble opinion...wages seemed to be alot better when accident rates where up.

An element of danger will always increase pay...the oh look how good these pilots are doing at keeping us safe.

The last major pilot error accident in the US was???(Besides Lexington...that was early in the morning) I know someone will have that info. If everything goes smoothly for less, than why pay more...again in my opinion it's the same deal for ATC...there wages have gone down significantly in the last several years.

Yes I am annoyed about wages...yes I am annoyed about furloughs, and yes I am annoyed about outsourcing(reservation centers and such), however....within the last few days I was offered a FO position within a regional which I will take for peanuts.

I have lived my whole life with free flight benefits, and the thought of for instance paying $300+ dollars for a plane ticket to visit sick family just does not sound appealing.

With all that said..I will take the offer with a smile on my face in these tough times, and I hope everyone else treading water can get one soon too...one can only stay afloat for so long. Give me till 2009 and maybe I will be bitter too.

The Nightflyer...(note time of post)
 

aloft

New Member
]Screw Eagle.

Screw Part 121.

I'm taking the midnight train the F out of here ASAP!

R2F <------ a tad bit bitter about this industry.
You know, I've been on these here forums a long time. So has R2F. And all these years, I've considered his positive attitude and optimism to be second only to Lloyd's. They've both been nothing short of unflappable.

So that statement right there, more than any other, gives me pause about this airline stuff.

And that's saying something.
 

Firebird2XC

Well-Known Member
If 170's and 190's show up they are going to be in AA not Eagle colors, and we will have AA numbers.
I'd highly doubt it, man.

AMR has been trying to reduce AA pilot ranks for years. Putting us on their pay scale is the LAST thing they want.
 

zmiller4

Well-Known Member
I'd highly doubt it, man.

AMR has been trying to reduce AA pilot ranks for years. Putting us on their pay scale is the LAST thing they want.
Doesn't AA have scope protections that limits the amount of Eagle jet flying based on the number of AA pilots?
 

SteveC

Really?
Staff member
You know, I've been on these here forums a long time. So has R2F. And all these years, I've considered his positive attitude and optimism to be second only to Lloyd's. They've both been nothing short of unflappable.
True dat!
 

Firebird2XC

Well-Known Member
Doesn't AA have scope protections that limits the amount of Eagle jet flying based on the number of AA pilots?
Yep, and it's been an issue of contention alot lately.

The Scope language for the "staffing floor" at AA and the MTOW for feed carriers has been a point of contention. AMR has been trying to circumvent it all year, and now they've just flat out asked for it to be removed.

With the APA pilots facing concessions vs a pre-packaged bankruptcy or arbitration, it'll be interesting to see how this pans out.
 

ready2fly

Well-Known Member
You know, I've been on these here forums a long time. So has R2F. And all these years, I've considered his positive attitude and optimism to be second only to Lloyd's. They've both been nothing short of unflappable.

So that statement right there, more than any other, gives me pause about this airline stuff.

And that's saying something.
My brother...I apologize for the outburst, but, in truth - I've pretty much had it with Part 121.

You, like I, have made a liveable wage - hell, even a NICE wage - in another career, in another life - that neither of us want to go back to.

But to stay here in an industry that greatly under-appreciates it's highly trained labor - is laughable. To be charged with the safety of hundreds of lives daily, and to turn around and make what we make - and then be the FIRST to get the axe when bad things happen.....while management takes millions of dollars in bonuses..... makes no sense.

I'll stay in aviation. My aim is to go the corporate route, Part 91 or Part 135 - or even get into pilot instructing at one of the sim companies...but, the goal is to get paid.

My advice....take whatever job you can to get to your ATP, get some multi and even some turbine....and stay the hell away from Part 121.

It's cool for the young guys who have never had another job in their lives, but for guys like us, who've made real money and had other careers where we were paid for our skills accordinly....to start over at the bottom both logistically and financially.... just to fly an airplane.....just isn't what it's cracked up to be.

Just my thoughts.
 

Cactus_Cutter

Well-Known Member
Did you really think you were going to get paid in aviation? If you want to get paid in aviation then get a CEO position and be responsible for the people who are responsible for hundreds of lives a day.

Crappy jobs do pay. Cool jobs don’t.
 

Firebird2XC

Well-Known Member
I'll stay in aviation. My aim is to go the corporate route, Part 91 or Part 135 - or even get into pilot instructing at one of the sim companies...but, the goal is to get paid.
...
My advice....take whatever job you can to get to your ATP, get some multi and even some turbine....and stay the hell away from Part 121.
...
Just my thoughts.
The Eagle pilot ranks would miss the likes of ya, man.

I'd be a liar if I said I hadn't wondered if I shouldn't be going elsewhere myself.

I like my job... but if the only tool I've got left to better my wage is to walk.. well.. maybe you've got something there.

In the meantime, I ain't licked yet.

Anybody know how to write a Bill? :bandit:
 
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