downgrading to FO, and the career
- Thread starter E_Dawg
- Start date
Why would a voluntary downgrade pose a potential interview problem down the road?
Bumblebee
Commodore
Alchemy
Well-Known Member
Depends on what your logbook looks like. I think once you hit 5,000 hours total with 2,000 of that being TPIC that's probably about all you're going to need "on the resume". I've heard that Southern Jets Innanshnul actually holds it against you if you have much more than 6,000 total time (i.e. there must be something wrong with this guy, he's practically a regional lifer). Then again maybe I just think that because I happen to be at 5000/2000 right now. At this point, I'd love to fly 20 hours per month and just collect guarantee. I could focus on finishing school, really dig into some hobbies, or perhaps even seek out some kind of second line of income.
E_Dawg
Moderator
Just shy of 600. If I wait for the "magic 1000" it'll be another 1.5yrs at this rate. Besides I really don't think there is a magic number, 500pic seems to open plenty of doors: air tran is 500 (not that I want to go there), delta is 0 but seems to be min of 400-500 competitive, and some have jet PIC reqs which you just don't get by flying a prop.
I'd be all over rsv if it was where I wanted to live. But it's not. Even the people from here don't want to live here. :dunno:
I was thinking it could be interpreted as backwards movement. I don't really know, just depends on how you "sell" it I suppose.
You're in a much better position if movement starts up again. You'll benefit pretty quickly, for me it will take another 1.5yrs or so to get all the backlog of FOs senior to me to the left seat. That would impact my decision as well. Rumors are flying now however there have been rumors of growth for the last 3yrs now. And nada. So I dunno!! Personally, I'm ready to have a life again :clap: When age 65 hits in 2012 I have no doubt we all will see movement again.
dasleben
That's just, like, your opinion, man
Personally, I'd stay in the left seat. I'm not sure what your family/home life looks like, but if you're single and don't have kids, staying in the left seat and dealing with the QOL crap sandwich for a little while is probably going to pay off the most in the long run.
Wife, kids, etc...take the downgrade.
EDIT: Oh hey, I'm "Old Skool" now...what do I win? Is there a secret handshake I need to learn?
Wife, kids, etc...take the downgrade.
EDIT: Oh hey, I'm "Old Skool" now...what do I win? Is there a secret handshake I need to learn?
SpiraMirabilis
Possible Subversive
You get a free KITTEN!
I think if I had 1000 PIC, I'd do it for better QOL.
crazyjaydawg
Well-Known Member
1,000 PIC or 1,000TPIC?
I would wait until the 1,000TPIC, but then again my Tanything is 0. I think QOL is worth a lot; however it comes down to the question of rewards now vs. more later. Take the QOL improvement at the regional stage and stagnat your future at a major, or suffer QOL now and potentially gain better seniority at a major.
I feel for ya man.
Ok but why would they even know? Usually when past employment comes up they'll ask general questions. The downgrade is a personal thing. All they would care about is your PIC time at the company.
A friend of mine interviewed at Delta and she was asked over and over again why she hadn't upgraded..like they were telling her she wasn't trying and they asked can't you handle being on reserve, is that why? She is a line holder F/O. If the company isn't offering upgrades then how can she upgrade?
I would do what makes you happy but others know better than me what will be best for you in the long-run.
Good luck to you.
I would do what makes you happy but others know better than me what will be best for you in the long-run.
Good luck to you.
Baronman
Well-Known Member
Valid question but mixed signals. If you invited her to interview, presumably you're ok hiring a regional FO.
That being said, maybe they gave her the benefit of doubt. There could be a number of reasons why somebody doesn't chose to upgrade.
If the upgrade is available and someone chooses not to upgrade, I think it's fair for the potential employer to come to their own conclusions. They're trying to hire a professional, and that may include hiring somebody who follows the normal career progression (Regional FO to Capt) and shows the ability to handle the added job responsibilities and pressures.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
Take the downgrade. Here's why:
-You've got a grip of TPIC. More so, you've been slogging it out in a crap hole for 2 years, and that should count for something.
-Quite frankly, as far as proof that you're an able pilot, I don't think you've got anything left to prove. Flight instruction, to Amflight training captain, to Amflight EMB-120 FO, to regional CRJ FO, to regional EMB-120 Captain, and all within a span of years that is shorter than many people could handle. You've hurdled multiple types of operations with ease, and if you need another 400 hours of TPIC to "prove" yourself, then there's something wrong.
-Fresno sucks.
-Don't wait to start living your life when you hit "the magical numbers," because it's slipping away from you right now. Miss Chicago? Want to move back? Do it, because life is going to pass you by faster than any of us can possibly imagine.
-Fresno sucks.
-Getting a job is ALWAYS about WHO you know, not what you know or what your EXACT qualifications are. You meet minimums, and you're a cool guy, and you know people. If you can't get a job with your current qualifications, you're probably not going to.
-Fresno sucks.
Take the downgrade.
-You've got a grip of TPIC. More so, you've been slogging it out in a crap hole for 2 years, and that should count for something.
-Quite frankly, as far as proof that you're an able pilot, I don't think you've got anything left to prove. Flight instruction, to Amflight training captain, to Amflight EMB-120 FO, to regional CRJ FO, to regional EMB-120 Captain, and all within a span of years that is shorter than many people could handle. You've hurdled multiple types of operations with ease, and if you need another 400 hours of TPIC to "prove" yourself, then there's something wrong.
-Fresno sucks.
-Don't wait to start living your life when you hit "the magical numbers," because it's slipping away from you right now. Miss Chicago? Want to move back? Do it, because life is going to pass you by faster than any of us can possibly imagine.
-Fresno sucks.
-Getting a job is ALWAYS about WHO you know, not what you know or what your EXACT qualifications are. You meet minimums, and you're a cool guy, and you know people. If you can't get a job with your current qualifications, you're probably not going to.
-Fresno sucks.
Take the downgrade.
Bumblebee
Commodore
999 tpic will not let you get through the application process for SWA...or others that require 1000 TPIC.
I know I still need 250 more hours of tpic to get to the "magic number" but I had to move on anyway...
For the person that asked to be clarified on PIC/TPIC, we are talking about TPIC, SkyWest doesn't hire you without 1000 pic.
I know I still need 250 more hours of tpic to get to the "magic number" but I had to move on anyway...
For the person that asked to be clarified on PIC/TPIC, we are talking about TPIC, SkyWest doesn't hire you without 1000 pic.
Bumblebee
Commodore
Is that for the application process, or what is considered competitive?
Buzo
Well-Known Member
I was in about the same position 4 years ago. I took the early upgrade to the EMB commuting from ORD to SFO. My wife was pregnant with our first child, and we had just bought our first house.
I was only flying about 20 hours a month, and I was gone 4-5 days at a time. After 3 months, I transferred to FAT, I flew little bit more, but was spending way too much time in a crashpad. Finally getting my transfer to DEN, made the commute more bearable, but I was still wondering if I had made the right choice. The day I got to DEN was the day they made the announcement that DEN was closing, I was getting displaced back to FAT.
Before going back to FAT, I was awarded MKE CRJ. In 9 months, I flew 215 hours in the EMB. After training, I was still on reserve, and not flying much. I applied with NWA a few months later with 340 hours of TPIC.
I didn't know a anyone who worked for NWA, and I had never ridden on an NWA airplane. About a week after filling out the online app, they emailed me the in depth app. Two weeks after that, I got a phone call for an interview.
During the interview I was asked how long I had been a Captain for and why I only had 400 hours of PIC time. I told them I had been on reserve the entire time. That was all that was said about it.
I feel your pain, sitting reserve with the SkyWest reserve system. If you can handle it, the future payoff will outweigh the current situation.
I was only flying about 20 hours a month, and I was gone 4-5 days at a time. After 3 months, I transferred to FAT, I flew little bit more, but was spending way too much time in a crashpad. Finally getting my transfer to DEN, made the commute more bearable, but I was still wondering if I had made the right choice. The day I got to DEN was the day they made the announcement that DEN was closing, I was getting displaced back to FAT.
Before going back to FAT, I was awarded MKE CRJ. In 9 months, I flew 215 hours in the EMB. After training, I was still on reserve, and not flying much. I applied with NWA a few months later with 340 hours of TPIC.
I didn't know a anyone who worked for NWA, and I had never ridden on an NWA airplane. About a week after filling out the online app, they emailed me the in depth app. Two weeks after that, I got a phone call for an interview.
During the interview I was asked how long I had been a Captain for and why I only had 400 hours of PIC time. I told them I had been on reserve the entire time. That was all that was said about it.
I feel your pain, sitting reserve with the SkyWest reserve system. If you can handle it, the future payoff will outweigh the current situation.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
Application.
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
Well I had typed out a long response but my computer went back one page and I lost it all.
Moral of the story is I was a RSV CA in base, downgraded to FO in base, then commuting RSV CA.
Life was better in base but I am crediting 120ish hours a month as a commuting RSV CA so I will do this for a year or so and set myself up nicely financially.
I'm back to being based here where I live in a month, and do most of my trips out of where I live anyway by working open time. However yesterday I was "on call" on RSV and sitting at home, it was wonderful. I can tell you I will NEVER commute if I ever get hired at a major airline. I will always live in base. These last 6 months of commuting really drilled that into my head.
Moral of the story is I was a RSV CA in base, downgraded to FO in base, then commuting RSV CA.
Life was better in base but I am crediting 120ish hours a month as a commuting RSV CA so I will do this for a year or so and set myself up nicely financially.
I'm back to being based here where I live in a month, and do most of my trips out of where I live anyway by working open time. However yesterday I was "on call" on RSV and sitting at home, it was wonderful. I can tell you I will NEVER commute if I ever get hired at a major airline. I will always live in base. These last 6 months of commuting really drilled that into my head.
