Don't read your C172 manuals on American...

[Bandit_Driver]

Don't cower to public pressure. If you are not doing anything wrong then go ahead and do it. I have studied many times on a plane without any problems.

 

[PhilosopherPilot]

The next thing they do will probably involve blowing up a PAX airliner, I just have this feeling. It's one of the few things that still is sort of overlooked in security, I think.

Edit: also with the reinforcing cockpit doors, it seems like it keeps people OUT, but it'll also keep people IN. Who knows if someone is going through all the flight training, just waiting to get on an airline, and then all of a sudden, one day, this plan goes to action and the people in the back are helpless. Pure speculation, of course.

Yeah, because the reinforced cockpit doors are a fortress. I guarantee that if someone wants in, be it terrorist or passenger taking the plane from a bad pilot, it can be done. That's why I want to be an FFDO, so when the door does crash open, I'm not sitting there with just a newspaper and fire extinguisher.

G

 

[flyover]

That's why I want to be an FFDO, so when the door does crash open, I'm not sitting there with just a newspaper and fire extinguisher.

Wait until you see how hard Mineta, with ALPA's blessing, has made it to be a FFDO. You may change your mind.

 

[kellwolf]

Yeah, because the reinforced cockpit doors are a fortress. I guarantee that if someone wants in, be it terrorist or passenger taking the plane from a bad pilot, it can be done. That's why I want to be an FFDO, so when the door does crash open, I'm not sitting there with just a newspaper and fire extinguisher.

G

Two words: Crash Axe. I thought about doing the FFDO thing, but after learning all the new hoops you have to jump through, I'm pretty sure a crash axe to the forehead will disable a would-be terrorist as easily as a bullet.

I've got some more insights on the whole cargo screening thing, but since this is still in the General (aka searchable and readable by guests) area, I'll wait for it to get moved to the Lav.

 

[Red5xwingdriver]

Back to about eight weeks after the Sept.11 terrorist attacks, one of my students told me that he would read his Gleim private pilot manual on the train commute to his job. He told me that people, "looked at him funny", and that he was made to feel bad about doing that publicly, like the attacks were his fault. I told him that he didn't do anything to be ashamed of. I also told him that this is still America, and how the terrorists have won if ironically we don't have the right to read certain things in public because of kneejerk reactions after tragic events. How funny is it though, that the people the flying public relies on (pilots, mechanics, etc) to keep them safe can't be seen reading the same materials that keeps them knowledgable, i.e. safe.

 

[Chris_Ford]

Yeah, because the reinforced cockpit doors are a fortress. I guarantee that if someone wants in, be it terrorist or passenger taking the plane from a bad pilot, it can be done.

Very easily with something in every passenger cabin actually, but before the TSA gets on my butt, I'll shut up

 

[flyover]

They are evil but they are too smart to do it again.

I really think you are overestimating their intelligence. Remember, OBL's stated objective for 9/11 was to draw the US into invading Afghanistan where we would be slaughtered and dealt a military defeat. Now he spends his days trying to make sure he's not in the sights of a .50 cal sniper rifle.

http://www.military.com/soldiertech/0,14632,Soldiertech_M107,,00.html

 

[tonyw]

I really think you are overestimating their intelligence. Remember, OBL's stated objective for 9/11 was to draw the US into invading Afghanistan where we would be slaughtered and dealt a military defeat. Now he spends his days trying to make sure he's not in the sights of a .50 cal sniper rifle.http://www.military.com/soldiertech/0,14632,Soldiertech_M107,,00.html

True, but on the other hand, it does require some intelligence to be able to carry out the attacks in Bali, Madrid, and London while hiding from the world's only superpower.

Remember, they went to the airplanes because we got smart about truck bombs.

 

[Airdale]

Yeah you guys are right, we should just get rid of TSA and airport security all together, since it really doesn't do anything anyway. And while we're at it, we should hand out information on how to fly airplanes in flyers in the seat backs. We should probably pay some sort of compensation funds to anyone who's ever been questioned by the government or law enforcement too, its wrong to be questioned when your innocent. I mean really, we as human beings, reguardless of race or religion, don't deserved to be questioned for anything we are not guilty of.

Seriously though, the government is silly for thinking that knowledge on how to fly aircraft is considered dangerous. What are they thinking? We should over throw our government for such silly narrow-minded thinking. Airplanes as weapons?
I mean the reality is that we are America, and we are a free country. People should be free to do whatever they want. Whether they are American or not, they should be free to read whatever they want, whenever they want and do what ever they want. Thats what being free is right?

And I find it tremendously stupid that we profile and question those that resemble the same people who killed thousands of our innocent citizens with their knowledge on how to fly airplanes into the ground. It really is ashame that we as Americans profile these people. They should be treated like every other person in America. In fact, we should upgrade all of their tickets to first class for no extra charge. Maybe even let them fly jumpseat. The only race that we should be questioning are white folks, because these people are crazy. They really are our biggest threat,they are all racist as anything too. We should be questioning them for 5 hours so that they miss their flight. We should either profile everyone or no one right? Can't leave anybody out now can we?

And actually now that I really think this out, I just think we should just leave the airlines alone, I mean what are the chances that the same thing that happened at 9/11 will happen again? I think next time they will attack us by dropping hamsters, gerbils and ferret's on our beaches. I think we should interrogate anyone who owns a hamster, gerbil or ferret - they might be deadly weapons.

Thanks for opening up my eyes everyone, you've really made me understand how America should be. I'm going to go make a few signs and go picket in front of the white house. I'm thinking of a few slogans, "Eliminate TSA!" "Interrogate every airline passenger!" "Bearded white men are terrorists too!" "How to fly an Airplane isn't top secret!" "Terrorists have rights too!" " Who's screening the screeners!?"


Come on people, stop waxing your $50,000 SUV and take a look at reality. Its called modern day warfare...and guess what? Its not nice, and its not fun.These people hate us. They will do anything to kill us. To kill our families. Your family. Your son, your daughter, your mother and father. You think its a game, you think its sad that people who look like those that killed our families, our fellow Americans, were questioned? Where is the sadness for those fellow Americans: white, black, hispanic, german-american, italian-american etc., that are missing family members - mothers, daughters, fathers and sons - whose bodies were never found in the pile of rocks once called the world trade center. Where does this distorted reality come from? Where does this false sense of security that you have come from? CNN? MSNBC? Until the day you have to handle dead bodies that have been crushed, torn and seperated in pieces - you have no idea. Until the day you see a mother in total shock because she can't find her son. Her son that we transported by boat in pieces to be identified. Only then will you realize that this isn't a game. The next attack could be your backyard - because the last one was in mine. And I served my country while cleaning up the mess. I'd rather inconvienience 4 guys for 5 hours then have my family killed by people who despise us because we are free. We might be a free country, but this does not remove our obligation as AMERICANS, reguardless of our race or religion or backround, to DEFEND our country and PROTECT our fellow citizens and most importantly our family members, from those who seek us harm. Why does everything involve race?? We Americans are diverse - that's what makes us great. I love my neighbor and fellow American reguardless of their skin color or religious belief. But I HATE those who try to kill my fellow Americans and threaten my family. Those that fit the terrorist profile, should be questioned. I don't ever want to have to see what I saw on 9/11 ever again.

 

[SteveC]

You funny!

 

[tonyw]

Yeah you guys are right, we should just get rid of TSA and airport security all together, since it really doesn't do anything anyway.

I'd be all for that. Does the current screening regime really do anything? I don't think it does. Now, if we had puffers to detect explosives, that'd be something I'd be all for. They had that at the CN Tower in Toronto, no reason why it couldn't be in an airport.

I mean really, we as human beings, reguardless of race or religion, don't deserved to be questioned for anything we are not guilty of.

So glad you've read the bill of rights and those requirements for probable cause and prohibitions against unreasonable search and seizure.

Seriously though, the government is silly for thinking that knowledge on how to fly aircraft is considered dangerous.

I'm glad you see that. I mean, after all, AOPA has what, 400K members, all of whom know how to fly airplanes? It'd be a real bitch to lock all those people up.

I mean the reality is that we are America, and we are a free country. People should be free to do whatever they want. Whether they are American or not, they should be free to read whatever they want, whenever they want and do what ever they want. Thats what being free is right?

Glad to see you understand what freedom means and that you don't want us to live in a world like 1984.

And I find it tremendously stupid that we profile and question those that resemble the same people who killed thousands of our innocent citizens with their knowledge on how to fly airplanes into the ground. It really is ashame that we as Americans profile these people

I can't tell if you're saying we should be ashamed or if you're saying it is a shame. Either one does fit. Because Israelis and Angolans didn't hijack those planes. Hell, man, those jihadists hate Israelis almost as much as they hate the United States.

I'm glad you have seen the light, and you understand why things like being able to think what you want and why being free of unreasonable searches and seizures and free to know how to fly an airplane is so important. I'm glad you understand that profiling an Israeli is just plain stupid.

Otherwise, you would hate the freedoms that make America great, and that would mean you hate America.:rawk:

 

[Airdale]

And let me just throw this out there too, because just about every discussion along these lines leads to some sort of racism topic and before I get flammed a "middle class white dude" again.

I am probably the least racist person you would ever meet. I served in the U.S. military along side people from all different races, African Americans, Hispanic Americans, Japanese Americans, German Americans, Chinese Americans, Vietnamese Americans, Indian Americans - you name it, I served with them. Notice the word American? Some of them weren't even U.S. citizens yet. We may have had different uniforms, different backrounds, different skin color, different religions - but we all had the same flag on our sleeve. These service members were and still are, my fellow brothers and sisters. We all served to protect our families and each other from those who seek us harm. I have no prejudice toward any race, I have prejudice towards those non-Americans that hate us and will do anything to kill us. America is the greatest country in the world because of our diversity. I have learned so much about different kinds of people in the military, that it has made me a much better person. But it doesn't change the fact that there are people out there who want you and I and all of our families dead. I think screening people and questioning people is a small price to pay to keep our families safe.

Does TSA really work? I can't say, because I know nothing about the organization other then they are there to protect our passengers. But having some sort of security, is better then none. I rest my case, I'm going to get dinner with some friends, which by the way aren't all white folks.

 

[Maximilian_Jenius]

I'm sick of people who think that simply because one is white that he never gets stopped for anything ever.


This is no exaggeration:
EVERY flight I have gone on since 9/11, I have been "randomly selected" for secondary screening.

I doubt very many of you have had to do that as many times as I have. BTW, at the busier airports, it gets you through security faster at times [that must be why they're doing it, to help the white man!]

But I guess that must be because I throw up the dub at hockey games :whatever:

...you get selected for dork screening!

 

[Chris_Ford]

...you get selected for dork screening!

It's funny how jealous you are!

 

[flyover]

I'm glad you have seen the light, and you understand why things like being able to think what you want and why being free of unreasonable searches and seizures and free to know how to fly an airplane is so important. I'm glad you understand that profiling an Israeli is just plain stupid.

Going a little far there aren't you? How did "think what you want" get in there? And I know that you know that airport security has nothing to do with the 4th Amendment. Flying on airplanes is a voluntary undertaking. Noone is compelled to come to the airport and undergo security screening. As far as "profiling" let's get real. The picture presented by these guys could easily lead to them getting checked out. They were and and then sent on their way. I'll bet the Israeli's feelings weren't hurt, he's been living in the "real world" for a long time.

 

[Maximilian_Jenius]

It's funny how jealous you are!

Whats funny is that you actually think that I am jealous. I have a signifigant other,got "some" this weekend. And could seriously pull more chicks then you any day and I didn't have to win big on a game show to get either.

 

[Sprint100]

Flying on airplanes is a voluntary undertaking.

Most of the time I think that fact is conveniently left out, kind of like selective amnesia!!!!!!!

 

[88MPH]

Paranoid public. I bet if it would have been 4 white guys speaking english, nothing would have happened.

No crap, dude! I'm a white dude. Last year I boarded XYZ airline with the HUGE FREAKIN Instrument/Commercial manual from Jepp! We all know what an attention getter that is! I hand carried it through TSA, past the gate, past the CAPTAIN even, and read it the entire flight, along with some approach plates. Picked up my baggage with it under my arm.

Not a word!

Go figure. By the way, how you doin', Mr. McVay?

 

[tonyw]

Going a little far there aren't you? How did "think what you want" get in there? And I know that you know that airport security has nothing to do with the 4th Amendment. Flying on airplanes is a voluntary undertaking. Noone is compelled to come to the airport and undergo security screening. As far as "profiling" let's get real. The picture presented by these guys could easily lead to them getting checked out. They were and and then sent on their way. I'll bet the Israeli's feelings weren't hurt, he's been living in the "real world" for a long time.

You're right, he said read whatever they want. Not think. And you know what, other than a few things that are classified he's right. You should be allowed to read what you want. If I want to read the Communist Manifesto, or Mein Kampf, it should be my right. In fact, it IS my right.

Flying on airplanes is not a constitutionally guaranteed right, and you do give up some privacy to do it. However, to detain military personnel of friendly foreign governments for hours while questioning them about the manuals of the aircraft they are being trained on is ridiculous. You do agree on that, don't you?

It brings to mind the story about how the TSA or FAA rejected a German fighter pilots request to fly his glider. This German was flying around in a foreign supersonic fighter with missiles and cannon, yet his application to fly his glider was rejected.

I am all for security measures that will actually do something to make us more secure, such as explosive detection puffers and screening cargo to make sure there are no bombs. What I am not for are things like this, which take away time and energy that could be focused on real threats.

 

[SmitteyB]

quit crying. better to have 5 guys held back 10 minutes than a plane full of dead people..

if i were anything but white, i'd be on a scholarship. o0o0o0o0o