Don't need a degree eh?
- Thread starter jtrain609
- Start date
moxiepilot
Well-Known Member
was Cliff's notes named for Cliff Claven???
Really... everwhere you go, it gives you more competitiveness...the more competitive you can be, the higher you can get.
tonyw
Well-Known Member
It's like being selected in the draft for a pro sport. Sure, you can do it if you're "too slow." Or "too short." Or a bazillion other things.
But if you're that can't miss prospect, things are a lot easier for you.
Why people argue against adding something that makes them more of a can't miss prospect, I'll never know.
ppragman
No pasa nada.
I agree with some of that, but not with others. I didn't get my CFI, I'm going to finish it, but I don't particularly need it in my career right now. Getting that rating should be about self fulfillment not about a job. Do you really want a CFI to whom you're just a number inj the logbook? As for a degree, I'm buying mine at UVSC. And as for skipping...welllllllll....
If you can get up to that next notch in the career ladder and do it quickly, by all means do it. Get that precious seniority number, and get your time in the company. Why? because the less you work, and the more you get paid the happier you're going to be. In other words, its all about QOL. Get the best deal you can for yourself, if that includes going to school to get a good job right off the bat then do it, but otherwise do what you want. You came off a little preachy on that one. Look, I'm 19 years old with a C-Amel/Asel IR. I'm FO in a Beech 1900C, and I'm making over 30k per year right out of the gate. By the time I'm your illustrious 25 years old I'll have well over 6 thousand hours if I stay where I'm at, and a type or two. And I'll be able to go pretty much wherever I want. I'll have my degree by then, but the point remains, it doesn't matter how you get there, just that you get there. Do you need to CFI? No, I didn't, I flew boxes in the bush. Do you need to fly freight? No, I am, but I didn't have to, I wanted this job. Do you need to fly SIC in a CRJ? No, but if the money is better, the progression is good, and the bene's are there, then do it! You don't have to prove yourself to Jtrain
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
That's great, but by all means, it carries for more gravitas when you tell the story after accomplishing your goals!
But, my Mom always told me I'm awesome and I'll be awesome at whatever I want to be awesome at because I'm the most awesome of awesome people!!!!!!111oneoneoneone My Mom's never wrong and makes really good cookies so she's right.
Poopy face.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
I know it dude, but I actually just thought I'd take this opportunity to let you know that I'm the most awesome person at scoreless soccer like ever.
I hope everybody that contributed to this thread shows to NJC, BTW. If they don't they've wasted a lot of their time talking big but without doing anything to help further themselves with networking contacts this website has to offer.
I hope everybody that contributed to this thread shows to NJC, BTW. If they don't they've wasted a lot of their time talking big but without doing anything to help further themselves with networking contacts this website has to offer.
You know I'll be there. Although I wasn't a poopyhead so you probably won't wanna talk to me.
ready2fly
Well-Known Member
K. Just read most of this thread and here are my $0.02:
Jtrain is spot on. Regardless how he said it - he's correct.
Some examples:
In the past week, I've flown with the following captains:
- Former F4, F5, F16 driver with a degree in engineering from Clemson
- Former F15, F111 driver with a degree from the Air Force Academy
These two, in particular, awaiting class dates at a legacy. Their counterparts at my regional with no degree and more time - will remain at the regional. Why? No degree.
On the flip side of that is the extremely low time hiring that's going on.
I just finished recurrent ground and this was a very large topic of conversation. The check airman who did the class commented that he was flying with a new-hire two weeks ago. The guy had something like 350 TT. They shot an approach into LIT down to mins and the FO zoned. Got so far behind the checklist to the point where he just stopped making any callouts whatsoever.
So, here is the captain, with 70 pax in the back - basically flying single pilot IFR down to minimums.
After landing, the FO said "That was COOL! That was my first approach in the real stuff!"
Captain: In this plane?
FO: Ever!
Do you think the passengers deserve that? Is that what you pay for as a pax when YOU fly?
Right now, my regional has a 270 TT pilot in training. That, my friends, is downright scary!
The Check Airman also said he had to Un-Sat a captain (eventually got it changed to an Incomplete) and his FO on a checkride ....because the 400TT new-hire couldn't read an emergency checklist, let alone a normal one...spent almost three minutes looking for a bleed air switch on the overhead......
...and when the check airman went before the board the next day to explain - they overturned the un-sat on the FO too and let the kid slide.
Why? Because they need warm bodies in the right seat.
Unbelieveable!!
I was hired in 2006 with 1300TT/115ME/5turbine and had something like 10 hours of actual and had shot numerous approaches down to minimums.........and still felt like (and was) a "low time pilot."
I'm two years into my airline career now and have learned enough to know that I still don't know squat.
It's the sense of entitlement that we're seeing coming out of flight training that is also scary. Kids from Riddle, NDU, Purdue, FSI, Delta Connection Academy....etc. are coming in with barely their commercial and acting as if it's their RIGHT to be in the left seat TOMORROW!
As for getting to a legacy any time soon if you're not sitting in the left seat of a regional right now - forget about it.
I meet the mins for DAL, but won't be receiving an invite to interview until I get some PIC - and as far as I've heard, most regionals are either not upgrading or their upgrades are sitting at anywhere between 3-8 years.
In short - to echo Jtrain's sentiment: There are no shortcuts in this industry!
To sum it all up and hopefully put it in perspective - my buddy who I went through new-hire training with, left my regional after a year to fly for a fractional where he upgraded to captain in 4 months.
His ultimate goal is to get back to the airlines.
He currently has just over 3000 TT/1500ME/300TPIC ........ and cannot get a reply from a legacy. Why?
Read carefully.
He has no college degree. Period.
He went to a job fair where United, CAL & NW were present. Every single one of them said he'd need a college degree to be considered.
You may not like how Jtrain said it, but his frustration is warranted and if you can't take it when somebody leaves off the candy coat - perhaps this whole airline thing isn't for you.
Just my $0.02. Spend it wisely.
R2F
Jtrain is spot on. Regardless how he said it - he's correct.
Some examples:
In the past week, I've flown with the following captains:
- Former F4, F5, F16 driver with a degree in engineering from Clemson
- Former F15, F111 driver with a degree from the Air Force Academy
These two, in particular, awaiting class dates at a legacy. Their counterparts at my regional with no degree and more time - will remain at the regional. Why? No degree.
On the flip side of that is the extremely low time hiring that's going on.
I just finished recurrent ground and this was a very large topic of conversation. The check airman who did the class commented that he was flying with a new-hire two weeks ago. The guy had something like 350 TT. They shot an approach into LIT down to mins and the FO zoned. Got so far behind the checklist to the point where he just stopped making any callouts whatsoever.
So, here is the captain, with 70 pax in the back - basically flying single pilot IFR down to minimums.
After landing, the FO said "That was COOL! That was my first approach in the real stuff!"
Captain: In this plane?
FO: Ever!
Do you think the passengers deserve that? Is that what you pay for as a pax when YOU fly?
Right now, my regional has a 270 TT pilot in training. That, my friends, is downright scary!
The Check Airman also said he had to Un-Sat a captain (eventually got it changed to an Incomplete) and his FO on a checkride ....because the 400TT new-hire couldn't read an emergency checklist, let alone a normal one...spent almost three minutes looking for a bleed air switch on the overhead......
...and when the check airman went before the board the next day to explain - they overturned the un-sat on the FO too and let the kid slide.
Why? Because they need warm bodies in the right seat.
Unbelieveable!!
I was hired in 2006 with 1300TT/115ME/5turbine and had something like 10 hours of actual and had shot numerous approaches down to minimums.........and still felt like (and was) a "low time pilot."
I'm two years into my airline career now and have learned enough to know that I still don't know squat.
It's the sense of entitlement that we're seeing coming out of flight training that is also scary. Kids from Riddle, NDU, Purdue, FSI, Delta Connection Academy....etc. are coming in with barely their commercial and acting as if it's their RIGHT to be in the left seat TOMORROW!
As for getting to a legacy any time soon if you're not sitting in the left seat of a regional right now - forget about it.
I meet the mins for DAL, but won't be receiving an invite to interview until I get some PIC - and as far as I've heard, most regionals are either not upgrading or their upgrades are sitting at anywhere between 3-8 years.
In short - to echo Jtrain's sentiment: There are no shortcuts in this industry!
To sum it all up and hopefully put it in perspective - my buddy who I went through new-hire training with, left my regional after a year to fly for a fractional where he upgraded to captain in 4 months.
His ultimate goal is to get back to the airlines.
He currently has just over 3000 TT/1500ME/300TPIC ........ and cannot get a reply from a legacy. Why?
Read carefully.
He has no college degree. Period.
He went to a job fair where United, CAL & NW were present. Every single one of them said he'd need a college degree to be considered.
You may not like how Jtrain said it, but his frustration is warranted and if you can't take it when somebody leaves off the candy coat - perhaps this whole airline thing isn't for you.
Just my $0.02. Spend it wisely.
R2F
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
You know I'll be there. Although I wasn't a poopyhead so you probably won't wanna talk to me.
Actually I don't want to have another word with you until you sell out and come fly an RJ. Chieftain's are for wussies.
Oh man, I would, but if I did MikeCWeb might grind me up in a stew and eat me.
I liked the IanJ that'd look at danger and laugh his head off better.
Danger is my middle name, baby!
If you could still have babies I'd eat them too.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
Well that's good, you pretty much can't get the job unless you do the jet course. Glad you're taking something away from this site!
Yeah that's why I said could.He's neutered!
See Kris and him advertised their decision in different light but the real reason was because of Ian's pending RJ flying and my threat to eat whatever children they might have had.