Don't be like Bob or "How to spot an Alaska Airlines management pilot!"

I actually had a guy bitch at me for working a job fair because our historic understaffing was going to cost him green slips if we hired more pilots.

Pilots. Real good at flying airplanes, but emotional/intellectual maturity, ehh… That’s on a case-by-case basis!
I had a Captain say he was glad the company didn't give us 200% this holiday season. Then people wouldn't call in, and he would have no premium to pick up. He actually bids for Christmas off to pick up premium.

Then he was threatening to somehow get another pilot in trouble for picking up premium out of base. All because this one Captain wants all the premium he can get.

Pilots in general are awful people.
 
No • way. He actually picked up instead of going to the picket?
Might not be quite that simple(?). Talked about it some here:

It's a bummer though. When the hours were proposed as a 9am-3pm kinda thing, I assumed that if we have a check in say 12noon, that we could stop by and join the line at 10am to 1130ish and then go for the trip.

Turns out, of the 12-3pm, only 2 hrs of that is actual walking! The rest is prep and post activities at a local hotel. Gotta admit, this caught me off guard. I'm working and with this schedule, I can't be there.
...later in the thread...
Was awarded a line with arguably the most important day off for this labor group’s chance at a better contract. Traded into working it instead, because “reasons”.
Yup. Reasons indeed. And ordinarily I’d share what that reason is, but I don’t feel like I owe you an explanation.
...
There's more, I suppose, but I've got to quit dodging chores.
 
He actually bids for Christmas off to pick up premium.
I did this.

picking up premium out of base.
I did this also. You should tell the guy next time to F5 the premium folder harder.

i would not consider picking up premium or anything else on a picket day. Even if you’re too wimpus to go, picking up out of the pot….yeesh. if unions still busted kneecaps, I feel like you’d be walking with a limp if someone connected the dots. And I’m sure people were watching. There were absolutely pot watchers at spirit (www.spiritgravychokers.com, I think it was) and they got slapped with a restraining order for their shenanigans. I’ve gone a little off track.tl;dr don’t pick up on a picket day.
 
I did this.


I did this also. You should tell the guy next time to F5 the premium folder harder.

i would not consider picking up premium or anything else on a picket day. Even if you’re too wimpus to go, picking up out of the pot….yeesh. if unions still busted kneecaps, I feel like you’d be walking with a limp if someone connected the dots. And I’m sure people were watching. There were absolutely pot watchers at spirit (www.spiritgravychokers.com, I think it was) and they got slapped with a restraining order for their shenanigans. I’ve gone a little off track.tl;dr don’t pick up on a picket day.
This guy is notorious for it. Even during negotiations he was doing it.
 
No • way. He actually picked up instead of going to the picket?
Oh this is going to be great


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Is this that union brotherhood at work. The JC crowd out with pitch porks looking to burn a witch today it seems.


If you must know, I had vacation and our contract sucks in a vacation month. A cruise booked well in advance was departing April 3. I only had 4 vacation days and with the unpredictability of reserve lines, I did not know if bidding reserve would have covered my entire cruise time. So I bid lines, and mind you, if there’s a 130 lines I’m about 10 below that so bidding about 140. I get slim pickings even if I’m lucky. 10 people above me have to skip a line bid just for me to even have a chance. My original line had a 2-day trip April 2-3 that had to be moved for vacation conflict. I ended up with work April 1-2. Regardless, an emergency came up at home and I didn’t even fly that day, nor could I have made it to picket.

Oh. Yuck. But really, don’t pick up on a picket day.

Yup. I had to trade out of a vacation conflict. Line bidding sucks. $50 says with PBS I could have gotten my vacation to work out and gotten April 1 off. But some people love being in the ‘70s technology.


This guy is notorious for it. Even during negotiations he was doing it.


That’s a heck of an accusation to make, without proof. I picked up in 2019. The Contract was NOT amendable until April 1 2020. By then Covid was here. Now, I pickup from other pilots (pilot grab). It helps that pilot out and helps me out. I have not picked up a premium time (150%) in a long time, certainly before contract negotiations.


And btw, maybe some of you union folks can answer this, because I saw this at my last airline. There is no retro, instead it’s a “signing bonus.” Once a TA is AIPed, the company and union come up with a lump sum for signing bonus (retro). The company cuts a check to the union, the union decides how to split it amongst the pilot group - historically speaking. At my last carrier, I didn’t pickup because that was the “cool” thing to do, yet, after 5 yrs last amendable date we get a contract, and the union ties the signing bonus to W2 earnings since the amendable date! WTH over? So now the union is rewarding guys who picked up open time during negotiations. Yeah, because that makes sense?
 
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ASpilot2be said:
This guy is notorious for it. Even during negotiations he was doing it.

That’s a heck of an accusation to make, without proof. I picked up in 2019. The Contract was NOT amendable until April 1 2020. By then Covid was here. Now, I pickup from other pilots (pilot grab). It helps that pilot out and helps me out. I have not picked up a premium time (150%) in a long time, certainly before contract negotiations.

No dog in this for sure looming epic battle. But your quoted post, he was talking about a pilot at his company. Not you. Just saying.
 
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And btw, maybe some of you union folks can answer this, because I saw this at my last airline. There is no retro, instead it’s a “signing bonus.” Once a TA is AIPed, the company and union come up with a lump sum for signing bonus (retro). The company cuts a check to the union, the union decides how to split it amongst the pilot group - historically speaking. At my last carrier, I didn’t pickup because that was the “cool” thing to do, yet, after 5 yrs last amendable date we get a contract, and the union ties the signing bonus to W2 earnings since the amendable date! WTH over? So now the union is rewarding guys who picked up open time during negotiations. Yeah, because that makes sense?

The quick answer as to why do it based on W2... ALPA has a very complex cash disbursement policy, that requires a whole bunch of things to been in place for money to be paid out to the pilot group. It's in place because of a whole bunch of lawsuits in the past. Part of the policy is that unless you get an exemption, a certain percentage of the funds (I think it's 30% but I'm not sure), has to be held back for a period of time in the event that things get contested by pilots. The cleanest way around having to do a hold back, is to use a uniform and recognized method for distributing funds AND to have the pilot group vote and ratify the method used. That's why the retro or signing bonus is normally part of the Section 6 ratification process.

The other common and recognized method is to just pay out a certain number of credit hours to each pilot at the delta between their pay rate and the new pay rate. The problem with this (and the reason that W2 earnings often get used), is that even the guys that don't fly high and pick up tend to complain it's not fair that they get 83 hours of retro when they fly 85 hours every month, and the guy who drops all his trips and only flies 70 hours a month is also getting 83 hours.

The last contract out here, we ended up getting full "retro" pay, based on specific payrates running back to the amendable date. Each pilot's check was based on the difference between their actual pay and the new pay rate, each month in the specific category they held during that month times 83 hours (which was the average line value at the time). Some guys liked it, but some guys complained because either they flew more than 83 hours every month or the hourly delta was more for some fleets than other fleets.
 
The quick answer as to why do it based on W2... ALPA has a very complex cash disbursement policy, that requires a whole bunch of things to been in place for money to be paid out to the pilot group. It's in place because of a whole bunch of lawsuits in the past. Part of the policy is that unless you get an exemption, a certain percentage of the funds (I think it's 30% but I'm not sure), has to be held back for a period of time in the event that things get contested by pilots. The cleanest way around having to do a hold back, is to use a uniform and recognized method for distributing funds AND to have the pilot group vote and ratify the method used. That's why the retro or signing bonus is normally part of the Section 6 ratification process.

The other common and recognized method is to just pay out a certain number of credit hours to each pilot at the delta between their pay rate and the new pay rate. The problem with this (and the reason that W2 earnings often get used), is that even the guys that don't fly high and pick up tend to complain it's not fair that they get 83 hours of retro when they fly 85 hours every month, and the guy who drops all his trips and only flies 70 hours a month is also getting 83 hours.

The last contract out here, we ended up getting full "retro" pay, based on specific payrates running back to the amendable date. Each pilot's check was based on the difference between their actual pay and the new pay rate, each month in the specific category they held during that month times 83 hours (which was the average line value at the time). Some guys liked it, but some guys complained because either they flew more than 83 hours every month or the hourly delta was more for some fleets than other fleets.

Appreciate this answer, thank you. So your guys' method sounds like option #2 (middle paragraph), with the certain credit hour being the average line value. I can still see complaints of guys who flew more getting less and those who flew less getting more of the share. And of course, the W2 complaint stands that those who continued picking up Premium and regular open time during contract negotiations are now being rewarded more for it.

I can't see a win-win solution to either formula. Either way, it's gonna peeve some group of guys.
 
I couldn't be at the picket because I don't have any schedule flexibility which is one of the main reasons for the picket. Anyway the bizzaro world of my "Inception" like career continues to get more ironic and weird by the moment. Big ups to everyone that did make it.
 
I couldn't be at the picket because I don't have any schedule flexibility which is one of the main reasons for the picket. Anyway the bizzaro world of my "Inception" like career continues to get more ironic and weird by the moment. Big ups to everyone that did make it.
Have you laid down on the train tracks yet?
 
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