Dollars for Delta Dumping

Y’all do know how insurance works right? They pay out. Guess what happens to premiums the next year?





Worst are police related settlements. “The city paid!” Um, guess who pays the city?
Corporate insurance policies are nothing like consumer insurance policies. You’re oversimplifying something you don’t have a basic working knowledge of.

But this isn’t the first time you’ve done this, is it?

Please save me the effort, stuff yourself in the locker and we’ll call it a day.

You can look at a financial statement on your own time, it’s not my job to spoonfeed you readily available information.
 
Corporate insurance policies are nothing like consumer insurance policies. You’re oversimplifying something you don’t have a basic working knowledge of.

But this isn’t the first time you’ve done this, is it?

Please save me the effort, stuff yourself in the locker and we’ll call it a day.

You can look at a financial statement on your own time, it’s not my job to spoonfeed you readily available information.

I don’t pretend to know anything about corporate insurance policies, but someone (maybe on here), told me that most airlines are self insured. Is that only on the aircraft side of things and not liability?
 
Probably not as bad as the chinese dump on themselves


Down range of Baikonur Cosmodrome (which is actually in Tyuratam, but I digress) is yet another USSR-related environmental catastrophe. This one is related to hydrazine, evidently. Littering the steppes with rocket parts has rather bad environmental consequences.
 
I don’t pretend to know anything about corporate insurance policies, but someone (maybe on here), told me that most airlines are self insured. Is that only on the aircraft side of things and not liability?
Aircraft are generally insured externally, but everything else, including health insurance is self-insured.

Like I have UHC but I don’t have UHC. UHC just administers the companies self-funded program. So when the bill comes, the company pays via the UHC sock puppet.

So when most large companies scream “premiums are going up!” Are they thooooo? :)

But even then, $78 million is barely even chump change, especially when you can amortize it over years to maximize the tax benefit, potentially write it off entirely or use it for an other operational write off.
 
I actually witnessed that event. I was going to lunch and saw the airplane dumping fuel over what I assumed was Simi Valley. An airliner dragging huge contrails at a low altitude caught my eye, at the time I was unsure what I was seeing, and I had no idea they were going to dump fuel all the way back to LAX.

The weird part of this event was that SoCal asked them twice when they were over the water, if they needed to initiate any fuel dump and the crew said no, no need to. Then, for some reason, they initiate a fuel dump over land, without any advisement to ATC, at low altitude and over a general populated area. Makes no sense.
 
But yer kinda defending finance bros. Someone, maybe someone whose year hasn't been so bright so far, will make it their G&O to "offset" that charge. Finance is the people that will mom-guilt executives into making dip• layoffs etc. "You won't make your targets if you don't reduce costs by $nMM and there's just nothing we can do to help otherwise** if you don't do that."

**because of lies or lazy
 
Aircraft are generally insured externally, but everything else, including health insurance is self-insured.

Like I have UHC but I don’t have UHC. UHC just administers the companies self-funded program. So when the bill comes, the company pays via the UHC sock puppet.

So when most large companies scream “premiums are going up!” Are they thooooo? :)

But even then, $78 million is barely even chump change, especially when you can amortize it over years to maximize the tax benefit, potentially write it off entirely or use it for an other operational write off.
And that line of thinking isn't new. It was happening when railroads were modern tech. I used to work for a company that self insured for health care and it was just as you describe. It did come in handy once when my wife had a catastrophic bicycle accident that shattered her ankle and required multiple surgeries, hospital stays and rehab. It was handled by the adminstrators and despite the eye watering cost of the whole debacle I only payed my deductible and never heard another word about it, she lost a little mobility, no more high heels or pretending it was '77 and she was dancing on the set of Saturday Night Fever (remember when a bunch of Gen X folks leaned hard into the '70s? She was one of them.) She still gets around just fine without a limp over a decade later. That same company wanted me to wear a hard hat if I set foot underneath an airplane and a harness with a safety line if I stepped above the third rung on a ladder. I used to joke that because the most dangerous part of our day was the commute they'd start picking us up in short buses and make us wear helmets on the way to/from work.
 
But yer kinda defending finance bros. Someone, maybe someone whose year hasn't been so bright so far, will make it their G&O to "offset" that charge. Finance is the people that will mom-guilt executives into making dip• layoffs etc. "You won't make your targets if you don't reduce costs by $nMM and there's just nothing we can do to help otherwise** if you don't do that."

**because of lies or lazy

I will take off my brilliant white glove and SLAP YOU WITH IT! Defending finance bros? Good day sir. I SAID GOOD DAY! :)

Finance Bros are as bad as the Private Equity bros: Johnny Hilbrant Partridge (@johnnyhilbrant) • Instagram photos and videos
 
And that line of thinking isn't new. It was happening when railroads were modern tech. I used to work for a company that self insured for health care and it was just as you describe. It did come in handy once when my wife had a catastrophic bicycle accident that shattered her ankle and required multiple surgeries, hospital stays and rehab. It was handled by the adminstrators and despite the eye watering cost of the whole debacle I only payed my deductible and never heard another word about it, she lost a little mobility, no more high heels or pretending it was '77 and she was dancing on the set of Saturday Night Fever (remember when a bunch of Gen X folks leaned hard into the '70s? She was one of them.) She still gets around just fine without a limp over a decade later. That same company wanted me to wear a hard hat if I set foot underneath an airplane and a harness with a safety line if I stepped above the third rung on a ladder. I used to joke that because the most dangerous part of our day was the commute they'd start picking us up in short buses and make us wear helmets on the way to/from work.

Oof. Bike wrecks are no bueno.

That doesn’t sound like a lot of fun. They made us wear high-visibility vests on the ramp and forbid us from doing certain things like stepping over tow bars, in between the fuselage and baggage carts and you’d have thought it was the end of the world by the level of caterwauling and complaining.
 
What if you have an aircraft with no dumping capability. Eg BD700. Just do an overweight landing.

The rule of thumb on the 350 is if it took off, you have performance to land but it will involve an inspection before flying again. Hell, airbus basically says “set up for an auto land, the airplane knows how heavy it is, will log all of the metrics and will let maintainance what it needs to do, if anything”

If it’s an emergency, get the aircraft on the ground. If you’re on fire, get the aircraft on the ground. Hello SwissAir
 
The weird part of this event was that SoCal asked them twice when they were over the water, if they needed to initiate any fuel dump and the crew said no, no need to. Then, for some reason, they initiate a fuel dump over land, without any advisement to ATC, at low altitude and over a general populated area. Makes no sense.
I don't know all of the details and I can only comment on what I saw, a big jet flying relatively low with huge contrails coming off the wings juxtaposed against a clear blue backlit SoCal sky looked like an impending disaster, as I said I had no idea what I was looking at. I've heard some discussion about the whole thing and to be honest the pilots, while dealing with an emergency, seemed completely unaware of what they were doing and honestly I'm surprised they remembered to stop the dump before they landed and avoided contaminating the runway. You can't just dump thousands of gallons of fuel at an altitude low enough that it can't dissipate over a populated area and just walk away with no repercussions. I don't know if the pilots got some time in a classroom but I'd bet Delta never does that again. $78M is a little more than a rounding error and the sad thing is half of that is going to the lawyers and the rest will be divided up by the 1000's of folks that were effected resulting in no actual compensation for the victims.
 
What if you have an aircraft with no dumping capability. Eg BD700. Just do an overweight landing.

I’ve done overweight landings in the 73 and 76. (Some of our 76’s didn’t have fuel dump capabilities)

It’s not really a big deal. Do a write up on the decent rate and touchdown and it’s a relatively minor mx inspection to RTS the aircraft.
 
The rule of thumb on the 350 is if it took off, you have performance to land but it will involve an inspection before flying again. Hell, airbus basically says “set up for an auto land, the airplane knows how heavy it is, will log all of the metrics and will let maintainance what it needs to do, if anything”

If it’s an emergency, get the aircraft on the ground. If you’re on fire, get the aircraft on the ground. Hello SwissAir

After having a bad autoland in the 73 I’ve lost all confidence in that hunk of junk so I only autoland if required. (CAT 2&3)

I don’t have my manual’s in front of me but I thought one of the limitations of the Boeing Autoland was it couldn’t be over MGLW. I’m too lazy to get out of the hotel bed to go over to my iPad to check, but that’s what I thought. I’m guessing Airbus doesn’t have that limitation?
 
After having a bad autoland in the 73 I’ve lost all confidence in that hunk of junk so I only autoland if required. (CAT 2&3)

I don’t have my manual’s in front of me but I thought one of the limitations of the Boeing Autoland was it couldn’t be over MGLW. I’m too lazy to get out of the hotel bed to go over to my iPad to check, but that’s what I thought. I’m guessing Airbus doesn’t have that limitation?
Maybe the Airbus will run the numbers and decide when it's appropriate to land without requiring MX to have a look around? EICAS might say something like "LANDING UNAVAILABLE" in turquoise with three and 1/4 dings, the checklist will say "FLY TO ALTERNATE AND CIRCLE UNTIL NOTIFIED"
 
After having a bad autoland in the 73 I’ve lost all confidence in that hunk of junk so I only autoland if required. (CAT 2&3)

I don’t have my manual’s in front of me but I thought one of the limitations of the Boeing Autoland was it couldn’t be over MGLW. I’m too lazy to get out of the hotel bed to go over to my iPad to check, but that’s what I thought. I’m guessing Airbus doesn’t have that limitation?

Not the 350. The guidance pushes you TOWARD an auto landing while overweight.
 
Generally "self insured" is exactly that...to a point. But <insert major company no matter the size> doesn't retain all, or oftentimes most, of the risk. They will hire an administrative firm (UHC) to handle the claims, pre-auths, etc for a fee. They will generally have "stop-loss" provisions for catastrophic claims (cancer, bad accidents, etc) that will operate over an individual and also aggregate basis for the entire employee group that is reinsured.depending on the size and complexity these can be "in-house" with the administrator for smaller self funded plans (UHC taking the reinsurance and everything is built into the admin charges for cost predictability).for larger, more complex plans bespoke arrangements can be designed. These would be Chevron, DAL, massive size companies. For property coverages like this case would be - same general idea but more complex. People doing this kind of work aren't your friendly State Farm guy, or some schmucky, Herb Tarlek type sales guy - they are tax, risk management, actuarial, and legal types that make a livable wage to design and put these things together. It is interesting.
 
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