bushpilot87
Well-Known Member
Ill add you to the list of whiny easily-offended millennials. Or is it because you're a woman? I guess I am just a mean sexist now.
Put your big girl pants on. You want to be dispatcher, you need to have thick skin.
Dispatching without an alternate
- Thread starter Tuesnightshenanigans
- Start date
Put your big girl pants on. You want to be dispatcher, you need to have thick skin.
bushpilot87
Well-Known Member
Thanks for your comments. They have added great value to the discussion.
womanpilot73
Well-Known Member
Avgirl
Well-Known Member
As have yours. Most people in most industries are helpful and welcoming to new people. We all had to start somewhere, and you seem to forget that. Being a mentor is a powerful thing that you don't seem to understand. Others on the board get it.
bushpilot87
Well-Known Member
I appreciate your concerns. First bit of advice? Get a dispatch job. Then maybe you'll have some comments of value. Have a great evening. - mentor.
bushpilot87
Well-Known Member
I gotta show you how to insert rather than attach for greater effect.
CRJInTheHeartOfTexas
бог благословит мать россия
CRJ, there you are! thanks so much for your input, we really needed that. Oh! I've been thinking, you should definitely send me your first and last name... I'll definitely hook you up at the major I work at... I'll be your new "connection". I definitely won't put you on the black list... no I would NEVER do that!! I've been super impressed with your postings on here...like seriously.
Ok, go ahead and PM me all your info... I definitely won't tell anyone who are! OK, talk soon, CRJ!!
Clrd2land
Well-Known Member
No. Alternate is not required. I think one of the biggest things to learn from this thread is that while it isn't taught nearly as much as it should in DRM/CRM/Dispatch Training, learning how to negotiate and communicate is one of the biggest assets that can be learned from our jobs in our operations groups. I cannot tell you how much I have learned and how much my flight crews have learned just by having an open conversation and asking the right kinds of questions. The flight crew may have had the opportunity to learn something new or see something in a different light and vice versa. Yes, there is that small percentage of pilots (and dispatchers) who just will not listen to facts or reasoning and just giving in is the best thing to do because there are more important things going on with your flights as a whole than a pilot wanting an alternate for a gorgeous day in Leipzig. (Speaking of which, I can't wait to get back and visit that beautiful city again)...
I think it is very appropriate for you to ask the question here and just make sure that you aren't missing something. No harm in that. The aviation world is a constantly changing environment and what may have been the right thing to to yesterday may not work today. Kind of like Eurocontrol...yesterday they loved your route...today there is no way in heck that route from yesterday will fly!
Keep learning!!! No one can take from you! And be confident! Flight crews sometimes just want to know that their dispatcher is on top of things and your assurance that things were safe and legal may have settled their jitters..(sometimes).
747Dispatcher
Well-Known Member
I always thought that in our line of work we should be prepared for worst case scenario, because the Sh** can hit the fan any minute even on CAVOK day.
F
Flying Saluki
Guest
The problem with this approach is then what do you do when their isn't "room" for the fuel without bumping 3 or 4 people?
It's not about getting pushed around, or getting into a pissing match. It's about dispatching to standards, not to Captains.
We are all professional airman, and our respective employers have established standards for flight operations. We are expected to adhere to them, or provide a good reason why we didn't. I am happy to authorize all the fuel the Captain wants, provided he/she can justify it.
SpiceWeasel
Tre Kronor
First bold point: not every situation is the same, so arguing about alternates because "what if" is silly.
Second bold point: that's when we walk downstairs tell the fueler how much we want then tell you how much we were overfueled.
Legal isn't safe, and safe isn't always legal (pending usage of emergency authority).
I've noticed our dispatchers are "conservative". They'll give us an alternate when there's not really a trend at the airport, and the alternate will have worse forecast weather. That always makes me chuckle.
womanpilot73
Well-Known Member
SpiceWeasel said:
Keep in mind that flights are planned way in advance for the most part so the forecast at the time might have required it or the trend looked like it was prudent to add one. By the time you get your paperwork, the TAF has amended and it's suddenly severe clear. This just happened at work last night. I had several inbound with an alternate that ended up not being needed.
Same goes for the alternate they added at the time for planning. It might have looked better than your destination wx when they planned it but by the time you got your paperwork, it changed. If needed, change the alternate. No big deal.
Even though we look at more than a TAF, and interpret what the weather systems are actually doing, sometimes it just changes in ways we didn't see coming. Think of all the severe clear forecasts that end up being CAT 3 approaches due to fog that was nowhere in the forecast. Or the pop up thunderstorms that appeared out of nowhere, that not a single meteorologist saw coming.
Actually this is what this thread is all about, OP had his ego bruised and now is looking for validation as to why he feels the pilot was wrong and is now passively aggressively liking everyone's comments who make him feel better. This thread is ridiculous as is the situation, as I dispatcher I have bigger issues to deal with than adding alt to a flight release at the request of the PIC. It's not an unreasonable request, why be a pain in the ass about it? Some people need to be a bit more realistic about where they sit on the food chain, help out the crew as much as you can while being safe and legal, it's pretty simple....
manniax
Well-met in the Ka-tet
If you think doing that gives you a blank check to add as much fuel as you want, I'm afraid you are mistaken. I wouldn't normally delay a flight to take off fuel, but if it was bumping revenue (or possibly even non-revs) I would have no qualms about telling station operations to have the plane defueled back to the planned gate fuel. If that upsets the captain, I'm happy to let him or her talk to a supervisor in the flight department about it. While the captain is having that discussion, I'll be sure to notify load planning not to send the final numbers with more than the planned gate fuel.
Honestly, as long as there is not a weight issue (or a computer issue on my end) I don't mind the crew adding fuel on board. However if it exceeds a certain amount, we are required to document the reason why, so replying "Because I'm the captain and that's how much fuel I want" is not an adequate answer in my book. I'll put down whatever you want to say, but I'd prefer it to be something other than "Jackass Captain" for the reason. If I feel it's a truly ridiculous amount, I will also document it in the shift log in case management comes calling. I don't do that often - probably less than once a year - but as long as the captain doesn't mind potentially getting a call about adding an extra hour's worth of fuel on a two hour flight when the destination is VFR, I'll go ahead and send the new paperwork.
True story: while it is rare, on more than one occasion I have had to turn down a captain's fuel add request because the crew was requesting an amount that would exceed the max capacity of the aircraft's fuel tanks.
bushpilot87
Well-Known Member
I was just going to passively aggressively like the post... but this is exactly right. Some people make this job much harder than it has to be and are always out to prove a point. Don't understand it.
bushpilot87
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately this is incorrect. You and the captain are jointly responsible. If he isn't comfortable signing off on the release until you add XX amount of gas or an alternate then you're going to add the gas or the alternate... if you're going to sit there and get in a pissing match over it then perhaps you're in the wrong line of work. It's not about proving a point and being 'right' its about compromise. As long as you know you did your part safely and legally, who cares what they want as long as its not effecting other aspects of the flight, other than your ego and self-righteousness.
z987k
Well-Known Member
Where I work, if the captain wants to add a little extra gas, we just tell the fueler. At no point is dispatch even involved. This happens on virtually every flight. I mean I guess they find out when we send our out/off times and fuels and it's higher or just at what gate fuel was originally.
manniax
Well-met in the Ka-tet
Up to a certain point we can add fuel with no amendment required, but we're supposed to talk to the captain directly for fuel adds. I don't mind talking to the first officer if he is unavailable but we have a policy not to go just through the station as it's led to fuel discrepancies in the past. Anyhow we have to send a new fuel slip for the fueler to add the extra gas on. It's rarely a big issue except when operations doesn't understand I want to talk to the crew directly to verify the requested amount and gets upset about it.