Dispatching without an alternate

[BajtheJino]

If captain calls and wants an alternate... I ask why he's uncomfortable, depending on my mood p, with a varying level of snark. For example, "what did I miss that's making you question a no alternate release to parallel runways with multiple CAT 2/3 approaches available?"

For me this is how that conversation would probably go: "Hey Bob Smith, John Doe here on flight 123. Listen bud, can you put us in an alternate of ABCD for our flight to WXYZ? And we'll need X more fuel but we won't have to bump any freight so we're good to go"
If I got any varying level of snark and axed why, my answer would probably be something along the line of "Because I'm asking you to, cause this plane is moving until my MF'n alternate is listed and my fuel is added. Thanks buddy. Have a good night."

Leave the ego at home. Perhaps its got nothing to do with you. Now I can understand severe clear all over a continent and a distant alternate being requested that bumps revenue but really, in the end, why do you care if the people hurtling through the aluminum tube want some more go juice and more options? Granted I'm not doing CLT to CAE and beating a dead horse for no reason. I'm flying in the Dark Continent and sometimes my alternate is my departure and we're down to counting ounces.. I've never had a dispatcher question me, maybe because I take the time to briefly explain my request (friendly demand). I think the only thing snark will get you, if you save up,is a pair of Irish Sunglasses.

 

[TN-DX]

So maybe I should provide even more detail. There was about 20 minutes of extra fuel added. And we are cargo so extra fuel does mean carrying less payload. However, this happened after I turned over my flight so I couldn't have the conversation myself. My relief did that part and this pilot still refused simply because he always wants an alternate, regardless of the circumstances. There's a bigger point I'm trying to prove with this. I know other factors are involved. But when a pilot can't explain why or even bother to have the conversation without demanding the alternate be added and he/she won't go without it, that's what bugs me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If it's a continual problem with the same flying pilot you can always send out a note to your superiors and let them help you figure out what the problem is together. They can take it up the chain and figure it out as well. There are always others in the company who can help you/us achieve the same goal, figuring out why he's not ok without an alternate in this case, and get planes out safe and legal.

 

[CRJInTheHeartOfTexas]

For me this is how that conversation would probably go: "Hey Bob Smith, John Doe here on flight 123. Listen bud, can you put us in an alternate of ABCD for our flight to WXYZ? And we'll need X more fuel but we won't have to bump any freight so we're good to go"
If I got any varying level of snark and axed why, my answer would probably be something along the line of "Because I'm asking you to, cause this plane is moving until my MF'n alternate is listed and my fuel is added. Thanks buddy. Have a good night."

Leave the ego at home. Perhaps its got nothing to do with you. Now I can understand severe clear all over a continent and a distant alternate being requested that bumps revenue but really, in the end, why do you care if the people hurtling through the aluminum tube want some more go juice and more options? Granted I'm not doing CLT to CAE and beating a dead horse for no reason. I'm flying in the Dark Continent and sometimes my alternate is my departure and we're down to counting ounces.. I've never had a dispatcher question me, maybe because I take the time to briefly explain my request (friendly demand). I think the only thing snark will get you, if you save up,is a pair of Irish Sunglasses.

Sounds like you have some ego yourself

 

[bushpilot87]

This particular flight was 121 Flag and both airports in C070 as regular airports. It's a regularly scheduled flight. If a captain repeats asking for an alternate regardless of the circumstances, you just add it without questioning it, just because they asked for it?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's not worth the argument, or coming across as some arrogant prick who thinks he knows better than the captain. Surely you can ask if you had missed something, or if he sees something you didn't.... but at the end of the day, there is no need picking this battle or arguing about it. Just add it.

And it bugs you? Don't take it personal, its all part of the game. If you get worked up over this, then you're going to have a long arduous career ahead.

 

[Tuesnightshenanigans]

It's not worth the argument, or coming across as some arrogant prick who thinks he knows better than the captain. Surely you can ask if you had missed something, or if he sees something you didn't.... but at the end of the day, there is no need picking this battle or arguing about it. Just add it.

And it bugs you? Don't take it personal, its all part of the game. If you get worked up over this, then you're going to have a long arduous career ahead.

It's not an arrogance issue. But you'd just let a pilot push you around because he could? Why not question it when it's 100% legal and is in compliance with company policy? You have a certificate that you earned just like they did. Use it and use your knowledge. Adding alternates willy nilly isn't good dispatching.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Flying Saluki]

If the captain asks, of course you do it. There's no reason to argue with him about it... whatever gets them off the phone.

I don't know if you are being humorous with this comment or not, but I never sign off on anything just because "the captain asks". Our responsibility as Dispatchers requires us to evaluate conditions and make an informed decision/recommendation. More than once in my career I have had to correct a Captain that has been, shall we say, "misinformed." And although they may not act like it, Captains expect us to do just that. Moreover, professional ethics requires it. If all we are is a rubber stamp for whatever the Captain wants, we might as well not exist.

 

[Tuesnightshenanigans]

I don't know if you are being humorous with this comment or not, but I never sign off on anything just because "the captain asks". Our responsibility as Dispatchers requires us to evaluate conditions and make an informed decision/recommendation. More than once in my career I have had to correct a Captain that has been, shall we say, "misinformed." And although they may not act like it, Captains expect us to do just that. Moreover, professional ethics requires it. If all we are is a rubber stamp for whatever the Captain wants, we might as well not exist.

This is exactly the point I was trying to get to. Only took how many replies to get to it?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[LowBypass]

It's not an arrogance issue. But you'd just let a pilot push you around because he could? Why not question it when it's 100% legal and is in compliance with company policy? You have a certificate that you earned just like they did. Use it and use your knowledge. Adding alternates willy nilly isn't good dispatching.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Thats the thing though. You did YOUR half of the job, and a good job at that. (assuming you don't suck) It was HIM that added the alternate so you aren't the one who will-nillyed the flight plan. (remember, 50-50)You need to just learn to let it go because you're never going to change it. There is always going to be "that guy captain" that everyone knows by their first name thats never "comfortable", "went through something 2 weeks ago", "not landing with less than X", "screw the company"...etc. If you made a good plan, planned well with a legal and safe approach then you did your job. Just because he ads fuel or an alternate doesn't mean you did a bad job and there is no need to get overly frustrated at it. You did your part, then he did his.
.
I know you just want to vent and thats cool, we all have been there before. Ask him why, get the info and make sure you didn't screw up. Maybe give him some clarification. If it doesn't work and he isnt leaving...just add the damn alternate and move on. Everything is recorded and logged, so your ass is covered and its 100% on him.

 

[Eskhobbs]

It's not an arrogance issue. But you'd just let a pilot push you around because he could? Why not question it when it's 100% legal and is in compliance with company policy? You have a certificate that you earned just like they did. Use it and use your knowledge. Adding alternates willy nilly isn't good dispatching.

How is a pilot asking for an alternate to be added to a release pushing you around? If there's room on the aircraft for the fuel and it doesn't impact anything operationally I don't see why it's such a big deal... add the ALT and move onto the next release.

Getting into it with a pilot about how it's legal when the guy(or gal) doesnt feel comfortable with it is only going to turn into a pissing match that you won't win, simple as that. He has a lot more on the line than we do sitting in our nice SOCs watching the flight from xxxx miles away.

 

[bushpilot87]

It's not an arrogance issue. But you'd just let a pilot push you around because he could? Why not question it when it's 100% legal and is in compliance with company policy? You have a certificate that you earned just like they did. Use it and use your knowledge. Adding alternates willy nilly isn't good dispatching.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

A whiny millennial perhaps? Boo hoo, the captain didn't like my release.. wahhhh. How is asking for an alternate being pushed around? The captain asked for an alternate. You know and he knows it isn't required. That's not the point. The point is, he asked for one. So sitting there and arguing about it when the captain clearly isn't comfortable going without one is how should I put it? "Isn't good dispatching."

You're not out to solve world hunger. You click a few buttons and create a release. The captain either likes it or he doesn't. You're not the end all be all no matter how smart you think you are. He has likely been flying a lot longer than you have been dispatching. Sometimes you just need to suck it up.

 

[Tuesnightshenanigans]

Well I'm bowing out of this thread because I seem to be in a minority. But thanks for the discussion everyone!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[3Green.]

Sounds like you have some ego yourself

CRJ, there you are! thanks so much for your input, we really needed that. Oh! I've been thinking, you should definitely send me your first and last name... I'll definitely hook you up at the major I work at... I'll be your new "connection". I definitely won't put you on the black list... no I would NEVER do that!! I've been super impressed with your postings on here...like seriously.

Ok, go ahead and PM me all your info... I definitely won't tell anyone who are! OK, talk soon, CRJ!!

 

[OneBadLT123]

Well I'm bowing out of this thread because I seem to be in a minority. But thanks for the discussion everyone!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not exactly sure what kind of answerers you were expecting? We've all been there. Just gotta suck it up sometimes and move on. I'm with the majority here. If you did a good job, and there wasn't anything you missed what's the worry?

Not sure if you wanted a pat on the back or what? (Not being a jerk here, just curious)

 

[Tuesnightshenanigans]

Not exactly sure what kind of answerers you were expecting? We've all been there. Just gotta suck it up sometimes and move on. I'm with the majority here. If you did a good job, and there wasn't anything you missed what's the worry?

Not sure if you wanted a pat on the back or what? (Not being a jerk here, just curious)

No. I want to know what it is others would do. I'm not a new dispatcher. This is something I've always had a pet peeve of. I also was not there when this went down. I released the flight, turned it over later, and left. It lies in how it was requested by the captain. An outright "I will not take this flight if you do not send me a new release" is not a professional way of dealing with the issue. I also don't believe in doing things "just to get the pilot off the phone."


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[bushpilot87]

No. I want to know what it is others would do. I'm not a new dispatcher. This is something I've always had a pet peeve of. I also was not there when this went down. I released the flight, turned it over later, and left. It lies in how it was requested by the captain. An outright "I will not take this flight if you do not send me a new release" is not a professional way of dealing with the issue. I also don't believe in doing things "just to get the pilot off the phone."


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thankfully you work at a shop that doesn't have a high release workload. More time for you to get offended and take a stand. Was it safe and legal? Then who cares. Pick your battles. This is not one to pick. You weren't there when it went down, but you seem to know exactly how professional or unprofessional the captain was being. The unprofessional thing is coming on this board and whining about it, "woe is me."

 

[Avgirl]

Thankfully you work at a shop that doesn't have a high release workload. More time for you to get offended and take a stand. Was it safe and legal? Then who cares. Pick your battles. This is not one to pick. You weren't there when it went down, but you seem to know exactly how professional or unprofessional the captain was being. The unprofessional thing is coming on this board and whining about it, "woe is me."

You know what's unprofessional? Not being constructive. You don't have to belittle someone because you can't see their side or you disagree with them. I hope I work with more open minded people who don't lecture you when you have the courage to ask a question. Right or wrong, there are better ways to interact with people. You want people to ask questions. You can't learn without that.

 

[PHL_Approach]

No. I want to know what it is others would do. I'm not a new dispatcher. This is something I've always had a pet peeve of. I also was not there when this went down. I released the flight, turned it over later, and left. It lies in how it was requested by the captain. An outright "I will not take this flight if you do not send me a new release" is not a professional way of dealing with the issue. I also don't believe in doing things "just to get the pilot off the phone."

I guess my question is how did you find out the Capt asked for the Altn after you left? The relieving Dispatcher felt the need to tell you something so minute the next day? Or you went in the history when you came back and looked up paperwork changes? If the relieving dispatcher told you. I guess we wouldn't be having this conversation at all if he/she kept such a minor situation to themselves...

 

[bushpilot87]

You know what's unprofessional? Not being constructive. You don't have to belittle someone because you can't see their side or you disagree with them. I hope I work with more open minded people who don't lecture you when you have the courage to ask a question. Right or wrong, there are better ways to interact with people. You want people to ask questions. You can't learn without that.

The whole thread wasn't constructive. It was someone whining because they got booty hurt, looking for validation.

So glad you chimed in. Just what this thread was missing... a non-dispatcher injecting their opinion.

 

[Avgirl]

The whole thread wasn't constructive. It was someone whining because they got booty hurt, looking for validation.

So glad you chimed in. Just what this thread was missing... a non-dispatcher injecting their opinion.

I don't understand how one like you feels it serves any purpose to insult anyone regardless of if you feel they are qualified to receive your amazing opinion. You aren't better than anyone else.

 

[Tuesnightshenanigans]

I guess my question is how did you find out the Capt asked for the Altn after you left? The relieving Dispatcher felt the need to tell you something so minute the next day? Or you went in the history when you came back and looked up paperwork changes? If the relieving dispatcher told you. I guess we wouldn't be having this conversation at all if he/she kept such a minor situation to themselves...

The way we do it, we e-mail flight plans. The captain e-mailed my specific work e-mail asking that the release be redone and for me to add a suitable alternate.