Discriminatory Hiring Practices of Foreign Carriers

[Polar742]

Go there; be the victim, and the answer to your question will become rhetorical. :banghead:

Bang the head, that's pretty silly. If you do any research you'll see that you are at best an at-will employee in someone else's country.

If you are an individual of any competence, you will do your due diligence prior to hiring onto any company, especially one overseas. If you are so inclined to apply and work under the conditions presently offered, then that's the game. Adding to that, if you visit another country without any rudimentary study of their customs and local ettiquete then you are the problem not them. Even more so if you want to work there and stay long term.

If you go in knowing the playing field and the rules they play by, you shouldn't be surprised about anything. If you get terminated because you had a bad PC or you twist your ankle and are surprised, that's your niavete and not them.

Sorry, the "victim" card doesn't play. I keep tabs on everywhere I can be employed for the day this place folds. I know what contracts are out there, the countries they're in and the general groundrules of each. There are some jobs I can't ever qualify for because I wear glasses. Big thick glasses at that. Do I think it's silly? Yes. Do I care? No, it's their airline and they can run it how they want. Now, if I were to end up at Singapore and move my family to their country, I have a whole set of rules I'd have to comply with. I would go in knowing that my young sons could spit gum on the sidewalk and I'd get tagged with a huge fine, or worse lose my job and have to move. It's part of the game.

 

[MFT1Air]

Victim? You're a victim of a hit and run, of a burglary or similar crime. In a foreign country if you're not what the airline wants you just not hired. I don't see how that equates to being a victim. The job description is pretty, young, professional. Not qualified, not hired.
If I can't fly an approach in an interview I'm not hired. Am I a victim?

Cmon now, take it to a higher level. Let's get cerebral/philosophical about this. Victim. . .victimized. The term is aptly appropriate. Stigmatized, discriminated. I'm sure you saw the Twilight Zone episode as it relates to this "perspective."

I'll cite it for you in case you missed it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Eye_of_the_Beholder

Would you like more clarification/elaboration? I can help you "see the light."

 

[adreamer]

I agree with Polar. It is their country and their law. If you don't agree with their practices, please feel free not working there.

Another way to look at those Asian airlines. Most of them are representing their countries. Therefore, they are "discriminatory hiring practices".

 

[MFT1Air]

OK, so help me please.

One question and I'll not belabor the issue.

Are you telling me one can't be a victim of institutionalized "stupidity?"

Now, to elaborate further, stupidity as relates to a bias predicated on race, gender, size, age, looks. . .etc. etc.

 

[MFT1Air]

I agree with Polar. It is their country and their law. If you don't agree with their practices, please feel free not working there.

I'll remember that the next time I venture down to Mexico or a couple other third world countries and see the deplorable working conditions those employees work under in order to make products ultimately shipped to America less expensive.

 

[Polar742]

OK, so help me please.

One question and I'll not belabor the issue.

Are you telling me one can't be a victim of institutionalized "stupidity?"

One can, but that's not the point of the thread.

If an airline OUTSIDE the US wants to discriminate they can. That was the question poised by the OP.

Brining up the "insitutionalized 'stupidity" and victim card is not an issue. In the US, we have several pieces of legislation and the EEOC to ensure that someone isn't "passed over" for a position. Other countries may or may not have the same processes.

That, in a nutshell, is the entire discussion.

They CAN discriminate, and they DO discriminate, and it's totally accepted in their culture. If you want to force your way into a country and into a job working where they don't want you, more power to ya. If I ever take a job overseas, my M.O. will be to be thankful to be there, shut the hell up, take my money and get the hell out.

Then again, Emirates did hire a female I know to fly there, so you never know until you ask....

 

[MFT1Air]

I have read articles that have spoken of discriminatory hiring practices of some foreign carriers on the basis of age, race, and gender (against American pilots). Has this ever been proven? Have there been lawsuits brought against any of these carriers?

Proven? Probably not. Lawsuits brought against the carriers? Probably, but probably not as many cases as should be.

I have heard of some foreign carriers have not hired female pilots and have unofficially "filtered" minority applicants out of their hiring pools.

I saw where Japan hired their first female pilot, so progress, although slow is being made. Is it by any means fair? No, but has been addressed by many in this thread, "when in Rome, do as the Romans."

FYI - Rome fell.

Filtering process? Oh heck, we have that in America, so you know it's prevalent in other countries.

Has anyone found or suspected these allegations to be true?? Based on personal or known experiences. If so, what has been or can be done?

I've seen and heard of success stories of individuals overcoming those biases, but I've also seen more than my share of individuals who failed.

What can be done? Keep fighting. In time, common sense and fair play will overcome stupidity.

Then again, Emirates did hire a female I know to fly there, so you never know until you ask....

There's another success story. Slow indeed but progress.


First post addressed.

Lastly, Rod Serling's quote. Quite an incisive and profound person he was.

“Now the questions that come to mind. Where is this place and when is it? What kind of world where ugliness is the norm and beauty the deviation from that norm? You want an answer? The answer is, it doesn't make any difference. Because the old saying happens to be true: Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, in this year or a hundred years hence, on this planet or wherever there is human life, perhaps out amongst the stars. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. A lesson to be learned— in The Twilight Zone.”

Food for thought when you perceive someone as "attractive."

 

[BajtheJino]

Cmon now, take it to a higher level. Let's get cerebral/philosophical about this. Victim. . .victimized. The term is aptly appropriate. Stigmatized, discriminated. I'm sure you saw the Twilight Zone episode as it relates to this "perspective."

I'll cite it for you in case you missed it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Eye_of_the_Beholder

Would you like more clarification/elaboration? I can help you "see the light."

:rotfl:

Thats a great episode. I've got most of the original Twilight Zone dvd's.
I can't argue further.

 

[MFT1Air]

:rotfl:

Thats a great episode. I've got most of the original Twilight Zone dvd's.
I can't argue further.

:yeahthat:

The guy was a genius. Each time there's a Twilight Zone marathon, I'm glued to the tube!

 

[fsiflyer]

I currently work overseas in Russia. I fly for a Russian corporate operator in Moscow. In doing so I have to abide by the laws of Russia. I do things their way, not mine or what is perceived to be the American way. A pilot was let go a while back for failure to adapt to the local environment. It was an at will termination. He had a few days to pack up and a ticket back stateside.

Also, my wife was hired as a flight attendant on the challenger I fly. One of our owners asked (very politely at that) that my wife not be assigned to the plane when he flies. He wants a girl who is not married to the Captian. Was she mad...NO! Was I?...nope. Its his bloody plane and he can do as he wishes. Other owners wish there to be no flight attendant at all. They provide their own "professional" FA. Oh well...again their rules. The faster everyone learns that doing expat work the faster they will find success at it.

All of our pilots and flight attendants meet certain physical, mental, and emotional qualifications. In the USA they would not comply in any way with EEOC laws. It is not the USA either and neither are the wages they pay. When you work overseas as an expat you agree to play by their rules and sometimes they change the rules mid-game. Either adapt or get out and let someone else in. Simple as that. The environment is eat or be eaten. International contract flying is very competitive and very lucrative so 99% of people adapt and learn the game.

 

[juxtapilot]

OK, so help me please.

One question and I'll not belabor the issue.

Are you telling me one can't be a victim of institutionalized "stupidity?"

Now, to elaborate further, stupidity as relates to a bias predicated on race, gender, size, age, looks. . .etc. etc.

In this case you'd be making yourself the victim...

But... the american way's the only way

 

[Dilla]

Proven? Probably not. Lawsuits brought against the carriers? Probably, but probably not as many cases as should be.



I saw where Japan hired their first female pilot, so progress, although slow is being made. Is it by any means fair? No, but has been addressed by many in this thread, "when in Rome, do as the Romans."

FYI - Rome fell.

Filtering process? Oh heck, we have that in America, so you know it's prevalent in other countries.



I've seen and heard of success stories of individuals overcoming those biases, but I've also seen more than my share of individuals who failed.

What can be done? Keep fighting. In time, common sense and fair play will overcome stupidity.



There's another success story. Slow indeed but progress.


First post addressed.

Lastly, Rod Serling's quote. Quite an incisive and profound person he was.

“Now the questions that come to mind. Where is this place and when is it? What kind of world where ugliness is the norm and beauty the deviation from that norm? You want an answer? The answer is, it doesn't make any difference. Because the old saying happens to be true: Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, in this year or a hundred years hence, on this planet or wherever there is human life, perhaps out amongst the stars. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. A lesson to be learned— in The Twilight Zone.”

Food for thought when you perceive someone as "attractive."

Thanks for answering.