Departing an Airport's Pattern

Revolutionist

New Member
When departing pattern, can you take a 45 degree departure in the direction of traffic, then make a 360 degree turn to overfly the airport 500 feet above pattern?
 
No

AIM
6. If departing the traffic pattern, continue straight out, or exit with a 45 degree turn (to the left when in a left-hand traffic pattern; to the right when in a right-hand traffic pattern) beyond the departure end of the runway, after reaching pattern altitude.
 
I;m sure someone is going to point it out so i might as well be the first. The AIM is not regulatory. There is really no one LEGAL way to enter or exit a traffic pattern.

If you do it the way you described you won't get in trouble as long as you don't like collide with another airplane. Then if that happens I'm sure the 91.13 you get hit with is going to be the least of your concerns.
 
I;m sure someone is going to point it out so i might as well be the first. The AIM is not regulatory. There is really no one LEGAL way to enter or exit a traffic pattern.

If you do it the way you described you won't get in trouble as long as you don't like collide with another airplane. Then if that happens I'm sure the 91.13 you get hit with is going to be the least of your concerns.

I was going to mention that, but actually dug mine out to take a gander before I chimed in. I can't find anywhere that something in the AIM is "binding and mandatory"...e.g...you "shall" do this or that. There are some things in the AIM that I really wish were regulatory in nature!

I deal with stuff like this all the time in the formal training environment. I get tired of people teaching "techniques" as binding "procedures".
 
At what point are you no longer in the traffic pattern?
500 feet above pattern altitude is what all the examiners I have worked with like, though I know of nothing specified.

The reason I say no is this:

Sure there is no specific regulation, but its a courtesy thing.

I operate out of a class G airport with all kinds of traffic coming and going, many of which don't even have a radio, let alone use them. Often times this traffic does not adhere to the proscribed pattern. It causes major problems when you are entering a downwind and some dude is pulling a chandelle off the runway right into you (its happened to me).

Its about predictability, that guy taking off is going to climb straight ahead, turn a predictable crosswind and remain in the pattern or leave as prescribed. If he does something different, the guy without the radio wont know, and the guy announcing an early turn might not see the traffic entering or already in the pattern; or vice versa.


I'm not saying its illegal, I'm saying its jackass.
 
500 feet above pattern altitude is what all the examiners I have worked with like, though I know of nothing specified.

The reason I say no is this:

Sure there is no specific regulation, but its a courtesy thing.

I operate out of a class G airport with all kinds of traffic coming and going, many of which don't even have a radio, let alone use them. Often times this traffic does not adhere to the proscribed pattern. It causes major problems when you are entering a downwind and some dude is pulling a chandelle off the runway right into you (its happened to me).

Its about predictability, that guy taking off is going to climb straight ahead, turn a predictable crosswind and remain in the pattern or leave as prescribed. If he does something different, the guy without the radio wont know, and the guy announcing an early turn might not see the traffic entering or already in the pattern; or vice versa.


I'm not saying its illegal, I'm saying its jackass.

I don't think anyone disagrees with you about not being an ass. I too fly out of a small Class G and get to see the idiocy everyday. Half of which is done by the locals with THOUSANDS of hours flying. I just love listening to the unicom freq too. There is a high-end fly-in resort up the road and I get to listen to them ask for cars, if the golf course is busy, if Mr. So and So is there...that all with the foreign students stumbling over themselves on the radio and the crop duster coming in to land as he cruises over mid-field at 50' AGL. Some simple courtesy would be GREAT....hence why I think there are some portions of the AIM that should be regulatory in nature.
 
In a tower controlled environment, when I request t/o clearance I add after-t/o intention (cardinal heading/departure heading/closed traffic etc.) and receive direction: (make straight out, make left or right downwind departure, make right/left closed traffic etc.) If I wasn't sure how to get to where I wanted to go, then I'd ask. Whatever, you can't just go wherever you want to in tower controlled airspace.

If in uncontrolled I follow the traffic pattern in use and depart on the appropriate leg. Instead of a 270 base leg departure I'd overfly midfield from the downwind.

ps didn't you mean a 225 degree turn after the 45? 360 would take you right back where you were already headed.
 
In a tower controlled environment, when I request t/o clearance I add after-t/o intention (cardinal heading/departure heading/closed traffic etc.) and receive direction: (make straight out, make left or right downwind departure, make right/left closed traffic etc.) If I wasn't sure how to get to where I wanted to go, then I'd ask. Whatever, you can't just go wherever you want to in tower controlled airspace.

If in uncontrolled I follow the traffic pattern in use and depart on the appropriate leg. Instead of a 270 base leg departure I'd overfly midfield from the downwind.

ps didn't you mean a 225 degree turn after the 45? 360 would take you right back where you were already headed.

Good catch. That's funny to envision though. "You spin me right round baby, right round..." :D
 
I think traffic patterns and radio communications should be mandatory at ALL airports. While were at it, put a user fee on it too.
 
not a big fan of regulated patterns. I too fly out of a busy g airport but when it's slow I see no reason to make a 45 to downwind entry. I may just. ale a straight in
 
There is nothing wrong with a straight in as long as there's no conflicting traffic. It's perfectly legal.
 
Poser, I'm curious by what you mean about 'regulated patterns'. If you mean that '...after monitoring CTAF fo a while and obviously no one else is talking, and there is no other observed traffic then I'll make a straight in for runway XX...', then I totally agree. Common sense should rule after safety considerations. Thankfully there are no 'skycops' and no 'pattern regulations'. In the 2-D motor vehicle world analogy, I detest sitting at a red light with no traffic around waiting for the light to turn green. Sequencing is for busy times to keep people from occupying the same space at the same time.
 
500 feet above pattern altitude is what all the examiners I have worked with like, though I know of nothing specified.
That could be interesting considering that the normal piston TPA is 800 or 1000 feet AGL and turbine aircraft pattern altitude is 1500 feet AGL. :)
 
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