Delta pilots Picket at ATL

What do you think the public is thinking when they see pilots with picket signs? Poor guys?

Perhaps I'm sounding like the kids in that old fabel (the king who had no clothes), but I think the public has the perception that a pilot makes 350K/year, and only works 4-8 days a month. Perhaps it's time to put reality in front of the public.

First, a 325,000,000 concession from 6000 pilots equates to about 50K each. Wow!

Consider posting the following on the picket signs.
1. I make $xxx,xxx per year.
2 The company wants to reduce it to $xxx.xxx per year.
3. They want to take my retirement away (completely?) I didn't think that was legal, but UAL proved it was. Today the airlines.... Tomorrow you!
4. This job cost me $xxx,xxx in education. Only 1 out of 8(??) classmates made it.
 
Maximillian_Jenius said:
Hey...it's what your myspace page says :) !!!

The FBO I work at
Some town in Indiana, IN
Chief Flight Instructor
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Apparently my FBO equals Purdue now? Fascinating. And stop posting my personal info :p And stay out of my myspace :)
 
Until there is some unity we're all screwed. As long as people are willing to take crap pay while instructing, then "move on to" a regional where they probably make even less money and get treated worse, only to POSSIBLY move to a major where their work rules will be abused and their contract taken away, we're all fux0r. There are people that are willing to shovel sh*t and enjoy it every single step of the way, and we've got an attitude that says "Well this is what you've got to do." Do lawyers do that? I don't know one pre-law student that said to me, "Man, I'm really looking forward to working 16 hour days studying and paying tens of thousands of dollars of money to get INTO law school, then bust butt there and pay MORE money, THEN make crap money! It's gonna be cool ain't it! We even get to wear suits!"

We've been taken hostage by our dreams.
 
sixpack said:
What do you think the public is thinking when they see pilots with picket signs? Poor guys?

Perhaps I'm sounding like the kids in that old fabel (the king who had no clothes), but I think the public has the perception that a pilot makes 350K/year, and only works 4-8 days a month. Perhaps it's time to put reality in front of the public.

First, a 325,000,000 concession from 6000 pilots equates to about 50K each. Wow!

Consider posting the following on the picket signs.
1. I make $xxx,xxx per year.
2 The company wants to reduce it to $xxx.xxx per year.
3. They want to take my retirement away (completely?) I didn't think that was legal, but UAL proved it was. Today the airlines.... Tomorrow you!
4. This job cost me $xxx,xxx in education. Only 1 out of 8(??) classmates made it.
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I too think that would be a good idea! after all, that's why we created this...

14865.183319.jpg


years ago and we are still selling the tshirts etc!!:nana2:
 
Kristie said:
ok, so you've presented a non ending problem.. what is YOUR solution?

*when one poses a problem, one should also pose a solution...confusious say

really, i wanna know.. not to start a flame war or debate or what not.. but thinking outside the box, maybe some of you youngin's who aren't in the industry yet have an idea or solution that would actually solve the problem? hmmm...inquiring minds and all that!
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Great Point. I have not spent enough trying to determine a solution but effort should be spent in doing so. I like the idea suggested of trying to inform the public of the situation. Not to make them think their pilots are inexperienced and their live are in danger. But maybe talk in terms of seat cost. For example, On a short hop in an RJ where the captain make $50/hr and the FO makes $25/hr, the total earnings of the piltos could easily be under $100. Let's say there are 50 passengers paying $100/each. If the public is informed, will they feel safe with knowing potentially less than 1 ticket is paying the people in whom they are trusting their lives?? Will they be happy if they understand the fact that we put similar amounts of money and time into our education as doctors and lawyers while making less than janitors for the first 10 years??

The public might be a better approach. Maybe through the picket signs. A much better chance of change than trying to convince college grads who still know very little about the real world to become martyrs...
 
I like the idea of a tip jar, kinda like at Starbucks, as you exit the aircraft. The F/A could give the folks in the first row a dollar to put in and then everyone else would feel guilty, reach for their wallets, and put in a dollar, too. The crew could split the jar three ways after each flight, possibly doubling the F/O's take home pay.
 
The skies are way too safe for John Q Public to actually make a rational thought about what actually goes on behind the locked cockpit door. He'll happily spend $3 on designer-brand tap water, but if he's asked to spend an extra $2 on a ticket because of a fuel surcharge or whatever.. "DAAAAAGUMMIT! Thar ought to be a law! Ammo call my congressman, I'm gettin' GOUGED!" :) :) :)

I think if the airline business was dropping a plane a year, people would look at the industry a lot differently.
 
Doug Taylor said:
I think if the airline business was dropping a plane a year, people would look at the industry a lot differently.
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If things keep up the way they are, that's exactly what's going to start happening. Like anything else, unless people die, nothing is going to change.
 
Doug Taylor said:
I think if the airline business was dropping a plane a year, people would look at the industry a lot differently.
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If I may:
"The above statement is not to be construed as a possible or potential tactic either endorsed, advocated, or approved by <your name here> in an attempt to raise public awareness regarding pilot training and skill levels involved in keeping the skies safe for all."

Notice: :sarcasm: invoked here ^.


;)
 
Purdue_Pilot said:
Great Point. I have not spent enough trying to determine a solution but effort should be spent in doing so. I like the idea suggested of trying to inform the public of the situation. Not to make them think their pilots are inexperienced and their live are in danger. But maybe talk in terms of seat cost. For example, On a short hop in an RJ where the captain make $50/hr and the FO makes $25/hr, the total earnings of the piltos could easily be under $100. Let's say there are 50 passengers paying $100/each. If the public is informed, will they feel safe with knowing potentially less than 1 ticket is paying the people in whom they are trusting their lives?? Will they be happy if they understand the fact that we put similar amounts of money and time into our education as doctors and lawyers while making less than janitors for the first 10 years??

The public might be a better approach. Maybe through the picket signs. A much better chance of change than trying to convince college grads who still know very little about the real world to become martyrs...
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This is another great example of a solution in search of a problem. I've seen this proposal floated many times over the years starting with when People's Express and other non-union carriers came into being after deregulation.

The public doesn't care a wit what pilots make. If you put a big campaign together the typical reponses would be, in order:

1) Seems reasonable, but
2) what do you think I can do about it, and
3) if you don't like it why don't you do something else?

Just as in any other part of the economy, when given a choice people will buy the one they consider the best value. Usually it's the cheapest one. Rarely, will they pay more because of an overriding desire to see other people paid what they deserve (especially when what they deserve is considerably more than what the consumer earns). Imagine McDonald's doubling the price of their burgers with the "explanation" that they just want to pay their people a fair wage. End of McDonald's.

So if anyone on here is really looking for some solutions they would be, among others:

1) Get some companies and the industry restructured so they have a chance going forward (ie let the market forces and bankrutcies play out, you can't stop them anyway) and
2) everyone keep a cool head and keep your powder dry union action wise. Living to fight another day and pressing your position when you have the advantage, not your opponent, are two of the most winning startegies there are. And
3) let go of the blame game and all other emotional finger pointing and start making decisions for yourselves about your career as the industry is, not as it was.

And if you think the above "solutions" are pretty radical they are pretty much what the president of ALPA said in the latest Airline Pilot magaizine. Doesn't mean they are right, just that I'm not the only dummy.
 
SteveC said:
If I may:
"The above statement is not to be construed as a possible or potential tactic either endorsed, advocated, or approved by <your name here> in an attempt to raise public awareness regarding pilot training and skill levels involved in keeping the skies safe for all."

Notice: :sarcasm: invoked here ^.


;)
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True, probably a good idea to include a disclaimer.
 
jrh said:
Sounds dramatic. I'd like to hear the full story on that one.

What could the head of the department do to "sabotage" them, besides fire them?
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Make it hard for them to graduate!;)
 
Kristie said:
ok, so you've presented a non ending problem.. what is YOUR solution?

*when one poses a problem, one should also pose a solution...confusious say

really, i wanna know.. not to start a flame war or debate or what not.. but thinking outside the box, maybe some of you youngin's who aren't in the industry yet have an idea or solution that would actually solve the problem? hmmm...inquiring minds and all that!
Click to expand...


Through my last two jobs I've had a chance to interact with quite a few pilots from several different airlines. The only two willing to admit there was a problem and gave solutions on how to fix it were surprisingly from JetBlue and American Airlines. I happen to agree with the solution of the American Airlines pilot. Merged seniority list of mainline pilots and the regional pilots that that fly for the mainline carrier. Or his alternative is to have the regional pay rates included in mainline negotiation. He also believes all airlines should start in-house unions but also have liaisons to the other unions. He believes pilot groups have to be able to look out for themselves but also have to know what to is best for the industry as a whole. He believes ALPA has not done their job over the years. Not just recently but for a long time. He believes when Braniff ceased operations that was the first sign but nobody did anything. When Pan Am ceased operations that was another sign, unfortunate nobody did anything about it. He's a senior American Airlines captain and only a few years away from retirement. I question how many young pilots really care about the profession the way the old-timers do.
 
Doug Taylor said:
The skies are way too safe for John Q Public to actually make a rational thought about what actually goes on behind the locked cockpit door. He'll happily spend $3 on designer-brand tap water, but if he's asked to spend an extra $2 on a ticket because of a fuel surcharge or whatever.. "DAAAAAGUMMIT! Thar ought to be a law! Ammo call my congressman, I'm gettin' GOUGED!" :) :) :)

I think if the airline business was dropping a plane a year, people would look at the industry a lot differently.
Click to expand...

I think the problem is the airline culture tries to hide mishaps. One of my good customers on my last job was a 737 captain at your mother ship. And once every couple months it seems he would have an engine go out because bird ingestion(Fort Lauderdale does that happen a lot there). Never once have I ever read about it on the news. I think it goes back to the person who suggested an ad campaign where the public is informed just how often pilots save their butts.
 
DE727UPS said:
I like the idea of a tip jar, kinda like at Starbucks, as you exit the aircraft. The F/A could give the folks in the first row a dollar to put in and then everyone else would feel guilty, reach for their wallets, and put in a dollar, too. The crew could split the jar three ways after each flight, possibly doubling the F/O's take home pay.
Click to expand...


The problem is that people think they're getting a deal for their eight dollars Starbucks coffee, so they have no problem tipping the person. On the other hand most people feel like they're being ripped off on their $200 round-trip airfare from Atlanta to San Juan (I've taken this flight twice at this price). I've heard people complain on this flight about how bad they thought the service was. Also keep in mind the last time I took this flight I did get lectured by the captain about how much he makes and how he felt my $40 tip was an insult to him.
 
Gonzo said:
Through my last two jobs I've had a chance to interact with quite a few pilots from several different airlines. The only two willing to admit there was a problem and gave solutions on how to fix it were surprisingly from JetBlue and American Airlines. I happen to agree with the final solution of the American Airlines pilot.
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Let me guess Gonzo...put the pilots on uninhabitable land with no form of goverment representation. With bulldozers on the ready.

:) I kid,I kid back to the conversation already at hand!!!
 
Gonzo said:
I think the problem is the airline culture tries to hide mishaps. One of my good customers on my last job was a 737 captain at your mother ship. And once every couple months it seems he would have an engine go out because bird ingestion(Fort Lauderdale does that happen a lot there). Never once have I ever read about it on the news. I think it goes back to the person who suggested an ad campaign where the public is informed just how often pilots save their butts.
Click to expand...
I think if you did that, i'd scare the public into not flying as often?!
 
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