Delta OAL Dispatcher Jumpseat Exclusion

[Mainline_or_bust]

Air Canada did some sort of study on beards and air masks. I haven’t read it, I was told that outside of ZZ Top beards there was no issue which sealing.

It’s always been a flimsy argument to me. The crew must be perfectly shaven, other than a mustache, yet Grizzly Adams in 15D can rely on a Dixie cup and inch from his mouth and nose.

I think the lack of desire to study it is the biggest culprit. I think Jet Blue, Air Canada and UPS are the ones I know of that allow them.

Even still when on OAL I’ll shave my beard if that’s what it takes to satisfy their policy.

 

[I Like IKE]

As a firefighter, we had pretty much the same grooming standards. Only mustaches. Some of us grew handle-bar mustaches that went under our chin. The department came down on us and made us trim them. Later, at the volunteer department I also worked at, the guy in-charge of doing fit testing of the masks and testing their seals tested a guy who had just come back from vacation with a full goatee, and the mask sealed just as well. I think it's one of those things that came about without any real testing or data. It just seemed right, so nobody questioned it.

 

[DeltaJulietTango]

Here's an idea:
just follow the rules until it is changed.

I ended up just trimming my goatee down to a mustache and kept it moving...because at the end of the day, that's the rule.

My bad for asking the question initially...because I ended up just following the rule anyway.

 

[I Like IKE]

Here's an idea:
just follow the rules until it is changed.

I ended up just trimming my goatee down to a mustache and kept it moving...because at the end of the day, that's the rule.

My bad for asking the question initially...because I ended up just following the rule anyway.

Here's an idea:
Grown-ups can still discuss the reasons behind a rule and whether it seems justified or not without saying they intend to break it. I kept only a mustache as a firefighter, and I shave my goatee down to the mustache (much to my wife's dissatisfaction) for my fam flight or when I think I meet need to jump to travel.
Asking questions and discussion leads to positive and logical change/growth.

 

[///AMG]

Here's an idea:
Grown-ups can still discuss the reasons behind a rule and whether it seems justified or not without saying they intend to break it. I kept only a mustache as a firefighter, and I shave my goatee down to the mustache (much to my wife's dissatisfaction) for my fam flight or when I think I meet need to jump to travel.
Asking questions and discussion leads to positive and logical change/growth.

Probably my biggest criticism of the military writ large. We ask our enlisted folks to not ask questions, and then are surprised at the results when dumb instructions supersede common sense. I get that this mentality has a place in combat, but it still drives me nuts. And directly to the point, I feel like the airline rule was rooted in the military. We hear the same thing about our O2 masks, yet our friends in the RAF/RAAF are allowed to fly with facial hair in some instances. Not to mention partner nations in the Middle East. Granted beards aren't generally allowed in our uniform policy so it isn't really a contested issue, but on the aviation side, this narrative has always been there too.

 

[GoingTurbo]

There’s at least one 121 carrier that allows pilots to have beards within standards. They based the policy not being able ro find any studies that show conclusively that the masks won’t proper seal. And when set to 100% emergency O2 there’s so much oxygen coming at you it won’t matter if some slips out.

It all goes back to the US military’s fascination with the Roman centurions and their requirements to be clean shaved.

I’m not saying you should allowed to roll up with a Billy Gibbons beard but maybe some reasonable leeway.

The Navy did do a study on beards and oxygen masks about 2 years ago. It showed that half-face respirators were 98% effective with an 1/8-inch beard and 100% effective with a 1/16-inch beard. The Navy’s current beard waiver policy limits the hair to 1/4-inch in length. If we can get ALPA on board with beards and goatees, it'll trickle down to dispatch eventually

 

[Mainline_or_bust]

The Navy did do a study on beards and oxygen masks about 2 years ago. It showed that half-face respirators were 98% effective with an 1/8-inch beard and 100% effective with a 1/16-inch beard. The Navy’s current beard waiver policy limits the hair to 1/4-inch in length. If we can get ALPA on board with beards and goatees, it'll trickle down to dispatch eventually

98% effective when it’s pure O2 tells me we have 28% extra to spare

Mostly my dog is this fight is allowing stubble. I once forgot to shave and with only a days growth a RJ CA told me “it was a good thing there were seats in the back because he wouldn’t have let me up front”. I owned it, total mistake, but it’d be nice not to care about a 5 o’clock shadow.