Delta Flowthroughs and 35% ALPA DCI Hires

Ok...here's the skinny. I have roughly 4000hrs in the CRJ with zero AP errors...and zero errors hand flying. Of the hundreds of guys/girls I've flown with, the ones that have trouble with the operation and had errors fall into one of two categories. They are either very weak as a CA and pilot in general...or they Don't pay attention because they hate their life, an job and everything else around them. Both I have zero tolerance for. Again...this is not hard, fly the airplane, don't be an idiot and stay halfway conscious of what's going on around you.
 
Up until the last CFM revision, we couldn't fly RNAV departures without the AP on at 600 feet. Okay, we could, but we'd be violating the CFM, and the FAA doesn't look favorably on that. With the last CFM it went from "required" to "recommended." We also no longer turn the FD off for takeoff. That came about because of an AD on the CRJ and some guys over-rotating with ice on the wings. To my knowledge and observations, no software patches came down, and the FD acts the same as it did before the AD, so I'm not 100% sure why we started doing it that way in the first place.

As for APs and V1 cuts.....if I lose an engine, as soon as I'm at 400 feet, the AP is coming on. I don't need to prove to myself I can fly single engine. I want my workload reduced. It's a whole lot easier to run checklists, talk on the radio, communicate with the company and everything else that goes along with it if I'm monitoring what the plane is doing instead of making it do everything as well. Now, LANDING single engine, the real plane handles quite differently than the sim. It's easier in the sim.
 
kellwolf said:
Up until the last CFM revision, we couldn't fly RNAV departures without the AP on at 600 feet. Okay, we could, but we'd be violating the CFM, and the FAA doesn't look favorably on that. With the last CFM it went from "required" to "recommended." We also no longer turn the FD off for takeoff. That came about because of an AD on the CRJ and some guys over-rotating with ice on the wings. To my knowledge and observations, no software patches came down, and the FD acts the same as it did before the AD, so I'm not 100% sure why we started doing it that way in the first place.

As for APs and V1 cuts.....if I lose an engine, as soon as I'm at 400 feet, the AP is coming on. I don't need to prove to myself I can fly single engine. I want my workload reduced. It's a whole lot easier to run checklists, talk on the radio, communicate with the company and everything else that goes along with it if I'm monitoring what the plane is doing instead of making it do everything as well. Now, LANDING single engine, the real plane handles quite differently than the sim. It's easier in the sim.
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I don't know this for certain, but I have to assume that you'd end up on your back if you did that in the ERJ. As Gonzo said, the YD is worthless.

Anybody know what CHQ does with engine failures and automation in the -145? Maybe wildfreightess could chime in here.
 
jtrain609 said:
I don't know this for certain, but I have to assume that you'd end up on your back if you did that in the ERJ. As Gonzo said, the YD is worthless.

Anybody know what CHQ does with engine failures and automation in the -145? Maybe wildfreightess could chime in here.
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If you end up on your back single-engine in a jet that's basically centerline thrust, you don't belong anywhere near it in the first place. :D
 
jtrain609 said:
I don't know this for certain, but I have to assume that you'd end up on your back if you did that in the ERJ. As Gonzo said, the YD is worthless.

Anybody know what CHQ does with engine failures and automation in the -145? Maybe wildfreightess could chime in here.
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I'm a CRJ guy, so forgive my ignorance, but why is the YD a factor? We just press the rudder pedal enough to center the brick, turn the AP on, and motor on. After you get a second, you trim the rudder forces out, but the AP is on either way.
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
I'm a CRJ guy, so forgive my ignorance, but why is the YD a factor? We just press the rudder pedal enough to center the brick, turn the AP on, and motor on. After you get a second, you trim the rudder forces out, but the AP is on either way.
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A few things:

-You guys turn the YD on prior to moving the aircraft, correct? We turn it on at VFS. I'm not really sure what would happen if the YD was engaged for takeoff, though I'm pretty sure you can't do it per EMB.

-Thus, we trim prior to turning on the AP with single engine stuff.

-Pressing on the rudder pedal while the YD is engaged is a fruitless endeavor.

EDIT: Sorry, just deleted a handful of things because now I'm second guessing myself. Let me dig into the books at some point and I'll get back to you.

And I guess thinking about it some more, maybe it would work, but I think you've still got a good chance of getting an AP fail. The thing doesn't like to have to add a whole lot of pressure to any control surface, and will give up pretty quickly.
 
I would be very surprised if the YD locked the rudder out; it's there to reduce dutch rolling tendency, not provide rudder input in case of an engine failure. In the 757/767, with the yaw dampers engaged all the time, the rudder and rudder trim operate normally with the autopilot on. For V1 cuts, the autopilot is normally engaged after cleanup, but it could just as easily be done just after acceleration altitude. Rudder input is required by the crew, manually or by means of trim (this thing requires a hefty amount of rudder, so trim is important unless you want to work some leg presses in :)).

Alas, I don't remember what the ERJ YD does. Been a while.
 
I'm tellin' ya man, the EMB-145 is just a Bro with jets :)

I mean look at how we have to land the thing. Land the mains, and then yank the yoke back into your lap so you don't destroy the nose gear.
 
kellwolf said:
Up until the last CFM revision, we couldn't fly RNAV departures without the AP on at 600 feet. Okay, we could, but we'd be violating the CFM, and the FAA doesn't look favorably on that. With the last CFM it went from "required" to "recommended." We also no longer turn the FD off for takeoff. That came about because of an AD on the CRJ and some guys over-rotating with ice on the wings. To my knowledge and observations, no software patches came down, and the FD acts the same as it did before the AD, so I'm not 100% sure why we started doing it that way in the first place.
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Interesting y'all turned it off. We were require to hit TOGA then pitch the FD to 10 degrees. I know on our fleet we had two different types of computers. One would pitch the FD to 12 degrees, I think the other one was to 14-15 degrees. We couldn't go back to using TOGA until all of our computers were changed out so they would go to 12 degrees.
 
dasleben said:
If you end up on your back single-engine in a jet that's basically centerline thrust, you don't belong anywhere near it in the first place. :D
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This is why you cant use the auto throttle single engine in the MD-88. That thing will have you on your back with catlike quickness.


Sent from my TRS-80
 
jtrain609 said:
A few things:

-You guys turn the YD on prior to moving the aircraft, correct? We turn it on at VFS. I'm not really sure what would happen if the YD was engaged for takeoff, though I'm pretty sure you can't do it per EMB.

-Thus, we trim prior to turning on the AP with single engine stuff.

-Pressing on the rudder pedal while the YD is engaged is a fruitless endeavor.

EDIT: Sorry, just deleted a handful of things because now I'm second guessing myself. Let me dig into the books at some point and I'll get back to you.

And I guess thinking about it some more, maybe it would work, but I think you've still got a good chance of getting an AP fail. The thing doesn't like to have to add a whole lot of pressure to any control surface, and will give up pretty quickly.
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Yeah our YD is on all the time. If it fails, the AP fails too. (If both channels fail.)
 
Kell, I agree with the a/p thing with the v1 cut. That was actually my argument for not taking a plane with one MELed. Or rather a situation arising from a captain refusing one. To my knowledge, I have never done a V1 cut without turning it on at 600ft. If they trained it, it's one thing. But I don't think I've ever done it.
 
Pilotdude3407 said:
Interesting y'all turned it off. We were require to hit TOGA then pitch the FD to 10 degrees. I know on our fleet we had two different types of computers. One would pitch the FD to 12 degrees, I think the other one was to 14-15 degrees. We couldn't go back to using TOGA until all of our computers were changed out so they would go to 12 degrees.
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Yeah, ours was hit the TOGA, then remove the FD. I don't think ours ever pitched to 15 degrees, though. Now we just hit the TOGAs. My main beef was it wasn't the final pitch attitude that caused the problem. It was the jerky over-rotation that caused them to stall. If you yank the yoke back that hard, it doesn't matter if the FD says 12 degrees or 15 degrees. You're gonna stall it. Pretty sure all of ours just read 12 degrees. I know they do now. Not sure of the exact pitch (and I'm too lazy to dig out my systems manual), but it's a hair above 10 degrees.
 
Derg said:
Messing with the JTrain... That could be a beef jerky commercial!




Sent from my TRS-80
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Actually, I do recall a dust-up over at the SureJet forums a couple years ago about climbs out of ORD being done at V2+15 instead of whatever it normally is (Vfs?). "Oh mah gawd, we're all gonna dieeeee if we lose an engine!"

"Bro, you do know what V2 is, right?" :)
 
kellwolf said:
Yeah, ours was hit the TOGA, then remove the FD. I don't think ours ever pitched to 15 degrees, though. Now we just hit the TOGAs. My main beef was it wasn't the final pitch attitude that caused the problem. It was the jerky over-rotation that caused them to stall. If you yank the yoke back that hard, it doesn't matter if the FD says 12 degrees or 15 degrees. You're gonna stall it. Pretty sure all of ours just read 12 degrees. I know they do now. Not sure of the exact pitch (and I'm too lazy to dig out my systems manual), but it's a hair above 10 degrees.
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The vertical mode for takeoff would pitch to either 12.5 or 15 degrees. I think you are correct as I don't recall seeing the FD pitch to 15 degrees either. I think the whole pitch set to 10 degrees or removing the FD for takeoff was that there were some that did pitch to 15 degrees (willing to bet it was the older CRJs).

However... the FD cancelling for takeoff help with the current gig as we don't use FD for takeoff :)
 
I haven't been keeping up with this thread, and I'm of course posting this at a bar, but I just noticed I was tagged, so I figure I'd better chime in before I wake up fighting tomorrow's hangover. Please forgive me if the thread drifted a little from when I was tagged.

They don't let us turn on the AP here at CHQ single engine until 1500' at the very soonest. Also, the best way to crash the sim is to ask for YD on during single engine ops. I only did that once, during initial training. Our emergency checklist procedure is controversial and I understand it's currently being overhauled. We go from QRH, to normal check, to QRH, and back to normal checklist. I hate it, but it must make sense to someone.

They say a revision is on its way, but I'll believe it when I see it. Just like kindles, a new contract, an FO raise, etc....
 
kellwolf said:
Up until the last CFM revision, we couldn't fly RNAV departures without the AP on at 600 feet. Okay, we could, but we'd be violating the CFM, and the FAA doesn't look favorably on that. With the last CFM it went from "required" to "recommended." We also no longer turn the FD off for takeoff. That came about because of an AD on the CRJ and some guys over-rotating with ice on the wings. To my knowledge and observations, no software patches came down, and the FD acts the same as it did before the AD, so I'm not 100% sure why we started doing it that way in the first place.

As for APs and V1 cuts.....if I lose an engine, as soon as I'm at 400 feet, the AP is coming on. I don't need to prove to myself I can fly single engine. I want my workload reduced. It's a whole lot easier to run checklists, talk on the radio, communicate with the company and everything else that goes along with it if I'm monitoring what the plane is doing instead of making it do everything as well. Now, LANDING single engine, the real plane handles quite differently than the sim. It's easier in the sim.
Click to expand...
Everything in the dash is easier in the airplane than the sim... I mean EVERYTHING. I only wish I could turn the Autopilot on at 400' in an emergency in the sim. Our books says 1000'. We do everything from taxi out to taxi in with the YD on in the dash, doesn't have any effect on the rudder travel at all, just how fast it moves, with the giant tail and rudder the Dash has it would rip the thing off if you slammed on it.
 
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