Delta flight ask pax to pay for fuel
- Thread starter Ophir
- Start date
Ralgha
Well-Known Member
Ophir said:
It's not the fuel part that causes me to disbelieve it, though why don't you go try to find a flight attendant who would put THOUSANDS of dollars of fuel on their credit card. That could happen, though I doubt it did in this case.
Answer the following two questions, and I might consider believing it.
Why is there NOTHING (findable) on the internet about it outside of this website?
Why did "some guy" run to an office a mile away to file the flight plan instead of having dispatch do it as they would in any other case?
Here are some other questions that aren't so critical to get me to consider it.
Check out the airport diagram. Where would they park so the nearest phone was a mile away down a closed road? The explosives area? Why would they not park at the terminal, where they could have easily filed a flight plan (assuming for a moment that dispatch refused to do so).
Why would "some guy" file the flight plan when one of the pilots could call (again assuming dispatch refused to file it) and file it?
The FBO in Sioux Falls is Business Aviation, 800-888-1646. Maybe you should call them and ask them about it? What better way to find out what happened?
blee256
Well-Known Member
Yeah I call BS. Ophir arent you an airline pilot. Dont you think this story sounds a little fishy? I know your source may seem reliable, but she could have misunderstood.
but to be fair You mentioned Sioux City (KSUX) in your first post. Then some how somebody started calling it Sioux Falls (KFSD). They are 2 different airports. Comair might fly into KFSD, but only NW flies into KSUX according to their website. I have flown into there a couple times. I cant remember what it looks like, but i know i have been there.
NW is in BK, yet they fuel us all the time. So why not Delta? And lets just say they did not want to fuel Delta until unless they got payment up front. If that was the case, wouldnt the flight be cancelled at that point? Do you really think DX would say, Put in on your CC and the company will reimburse you when you get back? Or even say "make a PA announcement asking for fuel money"? Sounds ridiculous doesnt it? I would find it more believeable if Delta asked NW to front the bill to pay fuel guy so they can continue their flight. NW and Delta are already sleeping together anyway.
but to be fair You mentioned Sioux City (KSUX) in your first post. Then some how somebody started calling it Sioux Falls (KFSD). They are 2 different airports. Comair might fly into KFSD, but only NW flies into KSUX according to their website. I have flown into there a couple times. I cant remember what it looks like, but i know i have been there.
NW is in BK, yet they fuel us all the time. So why not Delta? And lets just say they did not want to fuel Delta until unless they got payment up front. If that was the case, wouldnt the flight be cancelled at that point? Do you really think DX would say, Put in on your CC and the company will reimburse you when you get back? Or even say "make a PA announcement asking for fuel money"? Sounds ridiculous doesnt it? I would find it more believeable if Delta asked NW to front the bill to pay fuel guy so they can continue their flight. NW and Delta are already sleeping together anyway.
B767Driver
New Member
On my first part 135 freight job...I used to fly into some airports where the FBO would close after midnight or so. I remember occasionally having to pull out my credit card and fill up at a self serve pump. Those definitely were not the "good ole days". Then again...maybe they were. Then again...
Tell you what, give me a flight # and a date, and I'll search around public & company sources and find out what I can. If the person is so reliable, they ought to be able to at least provide a date & flight #.
Also, did this happen at Sioux Falls, SD, or Sioux City, IA? Both have been mentioned through the course of this thread.
Also, did this happen at Sioux Falls, SD, or Sioux City, IA? Both have been mentioned through the course of this thread.
Ophir
Well-Known Member
Look Ralgha, if you think I am going to try convince you I'm not. The thread was intended to see if anyone had more information this unbelievable event. I'm sorry that you are taking this as something that needs investigation. I was amazed that there was no news on this event too.
On another note, for those more interesting in the story, the latest addition from this gal is:
"one of the doctor's ended up putting it on his credit card. they didn't
make an announcement over the PA, it was a more a general inquiry to the
passengers."
On another note, for those more interesting in the story, the latest addition from this gal is:
"one of the doctor's ended up putting it on his credit card. they didn't
make an announcement over the PA, it was a more a general inquiry to the
passengers."
Ophir
Well-Known Member
MQAAord said:
It was SD and I have emailed her for more info. Now I'm really curious too. There are two direct flights from BOS to SLC a day, 477 and 866.
And to answer you other questions: of course I think this is fishy story. Why do you think I posted it? But the fact remains that this woman was there and it happened. As far as the dispatch thing goes I'll bet they don't have and ACARS there and they were running the dispatch back and forth.
Minnesota_Flyer
New Member
Nope. Captain Haynes became famous in Sioux City, IA.alphaone said:
This story seems to have happened in Sioux Falls, SD (at least according to the quoted account from the passenger in Ophir's later post). If it had happened in Sioux Falls, it probably would have made the paper. SD's a small place; every day is a slow news day (although they did have some excitment over the weekend what with the attempted demolition of SD's tallest building (a grain elevator) not quite going off without a hitch ( http://www.argusleader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?Category=SPECIALSECTION07 ).
MF
Ophir
Well-Known Member
Alright, I had to put this one to rest otherwise I wasn't going to sleep well. On Ralga's suggestion I called Sioux Falls' FBO. They heard of the incident. So I called SUX, Sioux City, IA and talked with the gal there who processed the order. They didn't know how they were going to pay for the fuel but AV Gas did a contract fuel order. I knew it sounded too bizarre
Van_Hoolio
Well-Known Member
The flight shows up on flightaware.com:
Flight Activity History (DAL477)
01-Dec-2005 B738/J Sioux Gateway Col Bud Day Field [KSUX] Salt Lake City Int'l [KSLC] 11:02AM CST 12:19PM MST 2:17
I believe!
Mike
Flight Activity History (DAL477)
01-Dec-2005 B738/J Sioux Gateway Col Bud Day Field [KSUX] Salt Lake City Int'l [KSLC] 11:02AM CST 12:19PM MST 2:17
I believe!
Mike
Umm, it was a she - - Post #4 said, "She said..." Post #12 says, "The woman telling the story..."MQAAord said:
Umm, perhaps she had no need for the boarding pass and ticket, and they have long since gone to file 13.
MQAAord said:
Try DL 477, a 737-800 that makes the non-stop from BOS-SLC at 6:45 am, or the afternoon (4:34 pm) DL 866, also a 737-800. (The date, Dec 1, was provided in Post #1, and again in Post #4.)
But are you sure you're up to the investigation?
There are two details that strike me as odd. First, both Joe Foss Field (FSD) and Colonel Bud Day Field (SUX) host contingents of the Air National Guard, and the storyteller references "all these national guard people around outside in the cold." However, the location of those "national guard people" with relation to the airplane is suspect. She describes the airplane as sitting on "this rather barren strip of runway," but I'm willing to bet that a medical emergency would have necessitated the airplane park near the terminal, where emergency services would have been most accessible. Her later reference to the "building" from which the one-mile run began reinforces my suspicion that they were indeed near the terminal, and not sitting on the "barren strip of runway."
Anyway, in the case of FSD and SUX, the terminals are not located near the ANG ramps. Why would "ANG people" be running around in the cold near her 737?
Secondly, tell me how many pilots you know that don't have cell phones. Even if there was no ACARS, and even if there wasn't a telephone within walking distance of the airplane, you can't convince me that a pilot would run a mile to file a flight plan, when all he'd have to do it use his cell phone to call 1-800-WX-BRIEF.
I CAN believe that he'd make such a trek to retrieve required paperwork, such as a flight plan / release, or weight and balance, or perhaps some other required documentation, from a fax machine, but that's a stretch. That information could also be trancsribed via telephone from a dispatcher. Even so, I'm willing to be that the best resources for such transactions would be located close to the same location where the airplane would have parked to provide access to emergency personnel.
Those details, in my opinion, make the reporter's story suspect.
I toyed with the idea that the best emergency services were available on the guard ramp, and the run was to the terminal to retrieve a flight plan/release from a company printer, but I can't imagine that all those guard people wouldn't be able and eager to provide a lift.
Too fishy.
[EDIT: I didn't realize it took so long to make this post, but I was doing other things around the house, and answering the phone, too. #30 and #32 weren't there when I began composing, so those details weren't considered as I wrote. So, we learn that some aspects of the story were retold accurately, and at least one was not. They did land at Sioux City, and there was a question about who would pay for the fuel. It's understandable how the rumor mill could distort that story. I still don't buy the 1-mile run.
].
TonyC said:Umm, it was a she - - Post #4 said, "She said..." Post #12 says, "The woman telling the story..."
Umm, perhaps she had no need for the boarding pass and ticket, and they have long since gone to file 13.
Try DL 477, a 737-800 that makes the non-stop from BOS-SLC at 6:45 am, or the afternoon (4:34 pm) DL 866, also a 737-800. (The date, Dec 1, was provided in Post #1, and again in Post #4.)
But are you sure you're up to the investigation?
Actually, yes. I would have tried to see what I could find in the company computer. Now that the issue has been resolved, I don't have to worry about it.
[EDIT: I didn't realize it took so long to make this post, but I was doing other things around the house, and answering the phone, too. #30 and #32 weren't there when I began composing, so those details weren't considered as I wrote. So, we learn that some aspects of the story were retold accurately, and at least one was not. They did land at Sioux City, and there was a question about who would pay for the fuel. It's understandable how the rumor mill could distort that story. I still don't buy the 1-mile run.
.
As you had distractions that kept you from finishing your post in a timely manner, I have two small (yet busy) distractions that don't always allow me to nitpick every detail of every post. I offered to research via means that aren't available to the general public, and I would have done that after my kids are in bed and I can concentrate a little more.
My apologies if I offended you by missing the gender of the eyewitness.
You are all probably too young to remember this but back in the 1970's a TWA 727 was hijacked between Athens and Rome. It traversed the Middle East for a day or two (and unfortunately one passenger, a U.S. Navy diver was killed) and at one point the flight found its way to Tripoli.
The hijackers wanted to go to Beirut but at this point the flight did not have sufficient fuel to make it. Since TWA didn't service Tripoli and apparently had no way to pay for fuel itself one of the flight attendants, Uli Derickson, pulled out her American Express card and threw it at the ground crew. Their faces brightened and they said something to the effect of "...yes yes, we take American Express!" They fueled the plane, she signed the receipt and off the went to Beirut.
She later stated that American Express never billed her for the fuel, that Amexco charged it to TWA, (who paid the bill.)
This little tidbit was recounted in Uli's obituary when she passed away last year, and I know many ex-TWA'ers who knew her and confirmed the story.
The hijackers wanted to go to Beirut but at this point the flight did not have sufficient fuel to make it. Since TWA didn't service Tripoli and apparently had no way to pay for fuel itself one of the flight attendants, Uli Derickson, pulled out her American Express card and threw it at the ground crew. Their faces brightened and they said something to the effect of "...yes yes, we take American Express!" They fueled the plane, she signed the receipt and off the went to Beirut.
She later stated that American Express never billed her for the fuel, that Amexco charged it to TWA, (who paid the bill.)
This little tidbit was recounted in Uli's obituary when she passed away last year, and I know many ex-TWA'ers who knew her and confirmed the story.
Sorry Tony, sometimes it's hard to 'hear' the tone of posts, especially a newer user who I'm not as familier with as others. In re-reading my post, I really came off sounding like a b-word. Sorry.
As for the TWA 727, is that the one that got shot up a bit during its hijacking event? Bill actually had the honor of working as a F/E on that plane when he was at TWA. You could still see the patched bullet holes in the cockpit. He said it was kind of creepy working that ship, knowing its history.
As for the TWA 727, is that the one that got shot up a bit during its hijacking event? Bill actually had the honor of working as a F/E on that plane when he was at TWA. You could still see the patched bullet holes in the cockpit. He said it was kind of creepy working that ship, knowing its history.
B767Driver
New Member
I've flown it. Ship #4339. The TWA pilots named all of their 727s. The 727 in general was dubbed "Ms Piggy"...since trying to land a 72 in gusty wind conditions was like wrestling a pig in mud. Ship #4339 itself was named the "Swine Star of Beirut".
I don't know why everyone is beating up Ophir. It's sounds like a perfectly logical story to me. An airline in bankruptcy is going to have a tough time obtaining any services for other than cash without a contract in place. Would you give a bankrupt home builder $10k in earnest money to build a house for you next month? Not me. A fair chance you'll never see that money again.
I don't know why everyone is beating up Ophir. It's sounds like a perfectly logical story to me. An airline in bankruptcy is going to have a tough time obtaining any services for other than cash without a contract in place. Would you give a bankrupt home builder $10k in earnest money to build a house for you next month? Not me. A fair chance you'll never see that money again.