Delta Disqualifiers

dasleben said:
It's just the arrogance of it. The fact that we're expected to apologize for this kind of stuff (and "work" to bring our scores up) is downright insulting.
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Or for not having a degree at all! It's ridiculous.

(Same argument, different aspect)

-Fox
 
bronco21016 said:
Did you steal my identity?

I graduated in similar time frame with a very similar GPA. Does anyone know if there's extra, or at least full, points for graduating slightly under 4 years?

My other question relates to unfinished school. I started a post-graduate program and dropped it because of another opportunity. How bad does the unfinished schooling for a post-grad program score?
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They may very well hold it against you, as someone said earlier, they (or at least their PhD designed algorithms) don't like people that are too smart. Back in the 07-09 time frame people were also saying that Delta wouldn't hire anyone with more than 5,000 hours either (too experienced, too difficult to mold/indoctrinate). The point is all you can do is apply if you meet the published minimums on their website, network, and better your resume to the maximum extent possible. There's no point in worrying excessively about things beyond your control. I don't want to see things get too whiney on here about this. I think there will be plenty of decent job opportunities for every non-felonious ATP in the next 5 years barring a total loss of cabotage. Also I'm convinced that there are some carriers in my segment of the industry that view a few black marks (maybe an isolated DUI, maybe a busted checkride or two, maybe no college degree) as a favorable thing because of retention considerations.
 
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Couple of things....

First, in addition to my previous post so no one is offended. I have also flown with many fantastic military pilots and some shaky civilian ones. I didn't want this to turn into a mil vs cil debate. My point being....your background doesn't make or break your ability to fly.

Second...I believe there truly is an looming and impending shortage of qualified pilots for the airlines. Most of my career I didn't feel this way. Times have changed and there are many reasons for this? There's the current downsizing of all things military combined with the lack of young folks getting into aviation. The civilian costs of obtaining all your ratings and then gaining the required number of hours for the airlines has become a major financial roadblock for most. Add that to the cost of a 4 yr college degree, the general real lack of interest in an aviation career by the younger generation, plus low starting salaries and it becomes a real supply/demand situation that favors pilots.

We are looking at a situation in the US that Europe and Asia have been dealing with for decades. They had to develop Ab Initio programs due to the lack of candidates and the financial inability of those folks to train in their own country. Why do you think they came to the U.S. to get their initial ratings....it was cheaper. It may still be cheaper but is becoming out of the reach for many.

Without a guaranteed job at the end of your training its almost foolish nowadays to take the financial risks in aviation. The airlines would be better suited to develop their own Ab Initio programs starting with college courses (if that's what they want).

Asian carriers are in a real shortage of pilots situation. The U.S. may find themselves in the same situation in the very near future.
 
ppragman said:
You're kidding me? So...because I went to school 6 credits a semester for multiple years and college stretched out to 7.5 years I have a lower score because I worked full time after my first year? You mean to say that if Delta would have been my "end game" (it's not, I'm not even sure that it appeals to me at all to be honest - especially after reading things like this) I would have been better off to finance the latter half of my education as opposed to paying out of pocket? That's hilarious. If anything, this selects against working class families who don't have the same access to higher education that upper-class families may have access to. What's particularly funny to me is that I was flying for a living during that time period while I went to college - both in a brick and mortar institution and when I switched to "internet school." I just can't possibly see why this is a barrier to entry HR would like to erect. I could see GPA being a target (and even that is a stretch, and I say that with a "good" GPA), or special consideration given to people with challenging degree programs, or even giving extra credit to higher education beyond your bachelors...but point reduction for not being timely enough? Good to know that HR is really focusing on things that matter during the hiring process.

What does that possibly show HR? That you can be decisive when you're 18? Hell, I didn't even know what I wanted to do with my life when I started going to college. I studied Russian (I was an exchange student in Ukraine in high school so it was a natural pick), anthropology, and math. I have upper divisions in all three as well as aviation. When I finally decided I wanted to focus on flying airplanes for a living (which in a round-about way meant going to college online) I already had 3 years of school under my belt and 3,000 hours of flight time. Even if I would have stuck with what I was doing and TRIPLE majored (which I was actually fairly close to doing) it would have taken me 5 years of full-time school to do it.

I just pulled up my transcript - I graduated with 212 credits across a wide array of subjects, I have the definition of a "well rounded" education. The truth is, I love learning, and studied everything. In fact, I'm going back to school to study engineering starting next month. Don't tell Delta, but continuing education has become (and remains) my greatest hobby in adult-hood, and I'll probably keep going to school for my entire life. To think that I would be judged negatively for that makes me chuckle a little bit.
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Highly admirable. And Love this post. I Love Learning as well. Quick question...how will you do airline employment and engineering school together? I would love to get my A and P. Not very feasible with a regional schedule.
 
Dan208B said:
Yes and that's what frustrated me about the process. I tried early on to do everything right, but the system changed. And back to life lessons, I thought Delta was the only place for me. I looked up to it so much and absolutely wanted nothing more in my life to work there. But that's not how life goes. It's SO critical to expand your horizons. Have a goal for certain, but don't bank everything on it and be ok with life taking unexpected turns.
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But what is a present corporation today? One that merged? Delta merged with Northwest. IOW, 40 years ago corporations were very straight forward. Now...not so much. Some Volkswagons are built in Mexico (I've heard), some Airbus will be built in U.S. Who owns Mercedes? Mergers acquisitions etc etc. I do realize that the airline industry is a little old school but nonetheless...my point is everything changes.
 
I think people are missing the forest for the trees. Delta uses a tiered system to interview. Currently they are interviewing tier1 applicants. Those are the high GPA, 4 year to finish, check airman, "perfect" candidates. They are about finished with those guys. Next up is tier 2.

So how do you get into a certain tier? Your app is graded and depending on your points, you're assigned to a tier. So a guy with 4 years gets a higher score than 6 years. But the 6 year guy could be a CP, so he gets a score boost for that.

Hiring is just starting. Before you know it, they will be down to tier 3. Don't sweat it. Just keep updating those hours and any other things you can think of.

As for boobies, last year, only 7% of all new hires had them. Not as important as you think.

For the guy incredulous that someone could fail initial, it has happened. The guys who did it were mostly senior regional captains who just couldn't make the change. Protip: nobody wants to hear how you did it at your last airline, or how much better it was there.
 
Gee, staying Part 91 is starting to look pretty nice... @SteveC, Grand Rapids in about 2000 hours sound good? :)

(This coming from the 31 year old guy who joined the Army out of High School and does not possess even an Associates Degree, yet somehow manged to land a decent gig at a National Laboratory.)
 
Avalon781ML said:
I spent 7 years getting my degree. I worked my way through school and was flying while taking classes over the internet. I find it odd and disturbing that I am, at the present, disqualified from interviewing for taking the responsible (and IMO tougher) route to get through school. But as I've learned over time life isn't fair and if my desire to remain debt free during school is an interview killer then I'll focus on other carriers and not let it get me down. I'm a good pilot, loyal (to a fault at times) employee, and an overall great asset for any company. Delta pilot or not I'll be just fine. Good luck to everyone...
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Your background sounds very similar to mine. Started community college that had a new aviation program. It failed, miserably, and the school eliminated it. Instead of wasting more money I finished up my ratings and started working/networking. Worked 2 jobs for a number of years until I finally saved up money to finish school. Paid my way through school while working a full time flying job.


TWP said:
If you are a regional guy and not taking online masters courses you are doing yourself a huge disservice. I understand it is expensive but it makes you stand out from the hundreds of regional captains with their bachelors and 6000 hours. Almost every pilot is walking around with a bachelors in his/her back pocket, it only matters now if you don't have it.
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I just can't get behind that first sentence. I can't, and won't put myself into crippling debt just in order to check another box for a company that may or may not hire me. If I want to do it for myself, in order to further educate myself or get more experience in a subject sure, but no way would I do it just for extra points.


My biggest gripe with all of this stuff is that whenever we have a new, young member join the boards, who only wants to fly for a living and wants to hear from all us pro's about how to do it, we all give nearly the same advice; "Airplanes will always be there. Enjoy your youth. Chase girls, not planes. You're only [insert age] once. Don't obsess over this career, enjoy life."

Well, it seems like all that advice has been BS. I would never turn Delta down if they called me, and I know pretty much everyone here would jump for joy if they got a "welcome aboard" email/call, but in the end it's a job. Whether I fly an airplane with a globe on the side or a Delta logo, in the end it doesn't define who I am. It's a job. A good job, but still, just a job.
 
Dan208B said:
So don't get discouraged, find other ways to improve yourself and bring up the scoring.
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Much easier said than done. The algorithms they use are not public knowledge. All we have are assumptions and rumors for what will improve our score. At the United Open House I asked how it looked like I was progressing and all I could get was "You are on the right track". Great. I knew was on the right track when I took my first flight lesson.

A Masters is not worth the money unless it will be used. If I went for a Masters it would double my debt load and still not provide any type of guarantee. Not to mention it takes 2-4 years to attain while working a job. FOs simply can't afford to take on a debt load like that. It is bad enough that I will likely dumping thousands of dollars on career fairs this year.
 
Derg said:
The "XYZ only hires women and minorities" is about the most hackneyed albatross of logic since the flat earth society.
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Some people need that crutch to justify the reason that they haven't been hired yet. Never mind the fact that they haven't even applied of updated their app in years.

On a different note, don't know about you but I wouldn't make the cut nowadays. Yes I finished my degree in 4 years, but I was a 2.0 and go!
 
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