Delta Connection Academy

[surreal1221]

For the price you guys are paying, I'd expect the timeline to be much shorter than what it is.

Could be done in less than half the time, for less than a quarter of the cost at other establishments...same training, CFIing earlier, gaining experience, moving on sooner.

Just amazed that many others do not see the light.

To each their own though. Want to spend the money? Spend a longer time before you have a seniority number? Go for it.

 

[kaiyo4u]

For the price you guys are paying, I'd expect the timeline to be much shorter than what it is.

Could be done in less than half the time, for less than a quarter of the cost at other establishments...same training, CFIing earlier, gaining experience, moving on sooner.

Just amazed that many others do not see the light.

To each their own though. Want to spend the money? Spend a longer time before you have a seniority number? Go for it.

I agree, I've done some shopping and found not only is DCA overpriced, their costs just about match part 61 training. I am finding similar things with other 141 schools too. Their ground school is overly priced compared to others I have checked, 141 and 61...
That's why I'm leaving for another school.

 

[RedBaron1]

"For the price you guys are paying, I'd expect the timeline to be much shorter than what it is.

Could be done in less than half the time, for less than a quarter of the cost at other establishments...same training, CFIing earlier, gaining experience, moving on sooner."

I wouldn't necessarly agree that the cost you spend equals speed through a program. I would say that what you spend equals the quality of instruction and training. I would hate to go to a Doctor that said he paid $300K to get his PHD in 90 days just to get it! I would hope that kind of money would be spent in a school that properly trained him to be a skilled doctor!

 

[DCApilot2006]

And you got paid HOW MUCH to run this here? Give me a break man. When you went through the academy the cost was around 30K. I was there then, and I was there in 2005. You do not have a CLUE what is going on around the academy these days. I would like to ask for the last 2 minutes of my life back after reading your long post. I'm too tired to even think about replying to this one.

(looks like the sales marketing team is working overtime today:yup

Having read some of the criticisms of DCA, I feel obligated to respond. I am a 2001 graduate of DCA. I was a student, CFI and a check airman for the academy prior to being hired on at Comair. I can certainly understand why some out there have negative attitudes toward the academy. I'm also sure that some of them are warranted. I know from personal experience that I too had some students who I had to "no show" from time to time. In those situations where it was found that the student had a legitimate excuse for not showing up for a checkride or lesson, the no show was excused and no further action was taken. Keep in mind however, these policies are in place for a reason and are ultimately there to keep the student progressing towards your goal. We all have the goal of flying professionally someday...somewhere. With exceptions, we also have to fly in all kinds of weather, good and bad. DCA is set up by Delta to train you the way Delta flies....period. This sometimes mean that you will fly in inclement, nasty, windy, weather. If not deemed dangerous, then that means you will fly. I would like to think most other schools are set up the same way. If not, then you're not getting your money's worth. Flying and ultimately dealing with these conditions, improves your skills and confidence. Such that, when you do land your first professional flying job, flying in inclement conditions will be alot less stressful and actually enjoyable.

I found my experiences at DCA to be trying, stressful, disappointing at times, but ultimately one of the best decisions I've ever made! The training I received was truly second to none. I, in turn, gave the same back to my students once I became an instructor and I truly enjoyed the experience. I look back at my DCA days as some of the best I've had. The friendships I forged there still last to this day. Having done some of my training on the outside and through American Flyers, I would tell you that the system in place at DCA works. It took me 9 months to get my instrument rating up North, on my own. In the end, I spent just as much if not more as if I'd gone to a structured academy. I can also tell you that every single one of my students is flying professionally now...that's a fact. Say what you want, but DCA followed through on what they told me they were going to do. They gave me my guaranteed interview and ultimately, I landed an airline job...upgraded to Captain and I'm now flying at NetJets on the Citation X. I started DCA at 37 years of age and I'm now 43. I'm a career changer and I can tell you that my worst day as a professional pilot still beats my best day as a police officer!!

There are those out there who aren't going to be happy...no matter what. We have them at NetJets too of all places. Captain's making over $120,000 a year and working half a month, yet there still not happy???? Every airline has them and in fact every workplace has them as well. You truly can't please everyone, all the time. Certainly do your research and find out what's best for you. However, I wouldn't be discouraged by those who've had bad experiences. That is NOT to discount those here who've had bad experiences at DCA either. I'm sorry that happened, but there are countless graduates currently flying today and living out their dream....I'm living proof. There is currently a designated pilot examiner at Comair who performs all the checkrides for new hire first officers who told me the following....and this is the truth. He told me personally that he would take an academy graduate over anyone from the outside any day. He sees how better prepared they are than the rest and as a result, these folks tend to get through jet training and the sims, fairly easily...due in large part to the airline structured training at the academy. Trust me, the system works...they've been doing in for quite some time. I encourage you to tour the academy, see what they have to offer and look at what your pretty much guaranteed in the end. Most other schools will not guarantee your funds or guarantee you an airline interview. If you enroll and then decide it's not for you, then you get any unused funds back...they keep nothing but what you've already spent. I know that other schools will keep your money, just something else to think about. Anyway, I hope this helps some of you and good luck all!

 

[dgross7241]

I'm employed by NetJets...not DCA. My compensation to run my reply...$0. I was paid $7.75 an hour as an instructor at DCA and made just over $8,000 that year, according to my tax returns. I should have taken out stock in Swanson foods for all the TV dinners I had off my luxurious card/dining room table. Everyone sacrifices to get a professional flying job. Ask anyone...with the exception of military trained pilots, what they had to do to get their first flying job. In fact most professionals including attorneys and physicians would tell you the same thing. Assistant District Attorneys make peanuts compared to what they paid to get through law school. Ask any doctor how much they were paid through residency and internship and ask how much their medical school bills are. I would bet nearly everyone has a story to tell.

Given what I've sacrificed, I still would do it over again. In the end, it's finding what you love to do and then finding a way to be paid for it. At Comair, I flew with numerous Captains who told me they wouldn't consider sending their kids to any other flight academy other than DCA. (By the way, they were paid nothing by DCA either). Unfortunately, in this industry, you do tend to get what you pay for. As a professional pilot I'm effectively working half a month, being paid more in my second year than I was after 15 years as a cop. The Academy got me to where I wanted to be...period. The cost of that....priceless. By they way....DCA is currently upgrading their fleet to all new Cirrus aircraft and building a new simulator hall. All the best...good luck and take care!

 

[kaiyo4u]

I'm employed by NetJets...not DCA. My compensation to run my reply...$0. I was paid $7.75 an hour as an instructor at DCA and made just over $8,000 that year, according to my tax returns. I should have taken out stock in Swanson foods for all the TV dinners I had off my luxurious card/dining room table. Everyone sacrifices to get a professional flying job. Ask anyone...with the exception of military trained pilots, what they had to do to get their first flying job. In fact most professionals including attorneys and physicians would tell you the same thing. Assistant District Attorneys make peanuts compared to what they paid to get through law school. Ask any doctor how much they were paid through residency and internship and ask how much their medical school bills are. I would bet nearly everyone has a story to tell.

Given what I've sacrificed, I still would do it over again. In the end, it's finding what you love to do and then finding a way to be paid for it. At Comair, I flew with numerous Captains who told me they wouldn't consider sending their kids to any other flight academy other than DCA. (By the way, they were paid nothing by DCA either). Unfortunately, in this industry, you do tend to get what you pay for. As a professional pilot I'm effectively working half a month, being paid more in my second year than I was after 15 years as a cop. The Academy got me to where I wanted to be...period. The cost of that....priceless. By they way....DCA is currently upgrading their fleet to all new Cirrus aircraft and building a new simulator hall. All the best...good luck and take care!

You give a good analysis of your opinion of your experience there. We all have to sacrifice in order to improve ourselves. It doesn't matter what you are trying to improve in your life. It's a fact of life.

I am a skilled tradesman, working on my third career. I do agree with you in that DCA will get you where you want to be.
Let me ask you, how many different instructors did you have and were they all equal, not only their quality of teaching, but in holding standards too?

I am assuming you had to have college in order to work as police officer?
At least an associates, because now most forces are requiring bachelors.
In your experience how did DCA's training compare to the college you went to?

For me, this is nothing like college. Homework that has to be handed in, yet not graded nor reviewed. Very little opportunity (in the classroom or with your line instructor) for review. You cannot even review your test because they only have so many and don't want anyone copying answers and passing them on....
That to me is a poor excuse for a school that is this "prestigious" and cannot generate tests for the criteria involved....

How can you improve your weak points when your not given feedback?

To sum it up, I expect a lot more than what I am getting for my money.

 

[kaiyo4u]

Yesterday, because of the antiquated equipment they charge so much for, we almost had to go non-coms. Com 2 had no static, but gave out. Com 1, even my Bose wouldn't filter out the noise coming over that radio. We had to write it up, but there was so much more to write up.
I question whether the Cirrus will be a good training aircraft. How many hard landings will that composite structure take?
Yes, it's good propaganda and incentive for the company to drive the price of education up, but will the Cirrus really be good for beginners?

 

[planediveguy]

Yesterday, because of the antiquated equipment they charge so much for, we almost had to go non-coms. Com 2 had no static, but gave out. Com 1, even my Bose wouldn't filter out the noise coming over that radio. We had to write it up, but there was so much more to write up.
I question whether the Cirrus will be a good training aircraft. How many hard landings will that composite structure take?
Yes, it's good propaganda and incentive for the company to drive the price of education up, but will the Cirrus really be good for beginners?

Hey if CIRRUS can take my landings... It can take anyone's!!!!

We are actually helping develop level 6 FTDs for the SR-20 and much of the initial problems with landings can be simulated. The CIRRUS is actually easier to land than a 172... it is a better platform for instrument training and the wave of the future. DCA got the first 141 CFII approved FITS TCO and OPS SPECS. Things are changing to the better, they just don't happen overnight.

And as far as the landing gear goes... it can take a lot of punishment.

Hope you get to fly in one!

 

[planediveguy]

Yesterday, because of the antiquated equipment they charge so much for, we almost had to go non-coms. Com 2 had no static, but gave out. Com 1, even my Bose wouldn't filter out the noise coming over that radio. We had to write it up, but there was so much more to write up.
I question whether the Cirrus will be a good training aircraft. How many hard landings will that composite structure take?
Yes, it's good propaganda and incentive for the company to drive the price of education up, but will the Cirrus really be good for beginners?

BTW... Love the SR-71!!! one of my all time favorite airplanes and that is a cool shot in your avatar!

 

[planediveguy]

Hey DCApilot2006.... time to change the sentence at the bottom of your posts.... "...12.50 an hour!" is more appropriate... A new bonus structure is currently in the works to pay the instructors and I will update when that happens...

 

[kaiyo4u]

BTW... Love the SR-71!!! one of my all time favorite airplanes and that is a cool shot in your avatar!

Thanks! It's my all time favorite too. Pure muscle, you couldn't ask for more. Mach 3+, FL 600 +, space suits... Her lines are just beautiful, a real work of art!
It's too bad they retired her.

 

[kaiyo4u]

I was too young to actually see her in action, but have talked with the guys who did. Spiral ascent over the air base until they were out of sight, then off to the wild blue yonder. That's flying!

 

[Nismaxdan]

...For that part, any of our current students lurking around here, come to my office and in 5 minutes I can show you how to prepare for those tests...

I will take you up on that offer next week.

 

[kaiyo4u]

Hey DCApilot2006.... time to change the sentence at the bottom of your posts.... "...12.50 an hour!" is more appropriate... A new bonus structure is currently in the works to pay the instructors and I will update when that happens...

It's still far below a living wage... $18.00/hr is closer, plus the normal perks.
Also getting paid for the time you are there, not just billable hours.
Right now, you're paying $12.50/hr, no health care (employer provided) and you are charging $54.00/hr for that instructor.

When working for contractors, they were charging $65.00/hr, I was being paid $26.00/hr, plus health, dental, vision and a funds matched 401K.

I realize instructing is a transient position, but there has to be some equal ground.

You cannot realistically expect to keep anyone who is only getting paid $12.50/hr without benefits to consider keeping their position to help you get through a lean time (lack of instructors).
From the instructors I have spoken with on the subject, they are there from early in the morning to late in the evening, with maybe billing 4 hours.
Some less than that, when you average the total hours being "on call" at the site with the amount of money received, the pay level is far less than $12.50/hr.

Let's take an average day: You arrive at 0700 hrs, leave at 1900 hrs and only bill 4 hrs. At $12.50 thats $50.00 for the company requiring you to be on site for 12 hours. That means you actually got paid $4.17/hr, which is less than minimum wage.
Out of that billing the company gets $216.00 and you receive $50.00.
To me that means you have a very high profit margin, high overhead or both.

 

[DCApilot2006]

The cirrus is NOT a training aircraft. PERIOD! Just wait until the first knucklehead taxis out and forgets to untie the tail. (seen it happen there many times) The cessna just won't go anywhere. The cirrus will be ripped apart! Now go and find me someone today that can fix that kind of mistake. Qualified people skilled in the repair of composite materials are next to impossible to find. Cirrus will LOVE this. They'll make tons of money.

The antiquated equipment is an embarassment. Same goes for the management. Their newest assistant chief is one of the scariest pilots I have ever had the opportunity to fly with! The management is a joke. Look at the fat guy in a flight suit, he can't even fit into it and why would he need a flight suit anyhow? EGO, this guy is airborne while still on the GROUND! Besides wtf is this guy STILL doing there after all these years?
Ever walk down the hall and try to say hi to Larry? These people do everything to avoid eye contact and god forbid they treat you like a human and say HI to you! The smart ones left that crap far behind. DCA is overrated, full of lies and the quality of instruction has gone down the drain. The management treats the instructors like crap, pays them like slaves and risks their tickets everyday with junk aircraft.

Hey FABIO, question for you? IF the school is so screwed these days for instructors, why can't it's graduating students MAKE it though stands class? This should tell you something, they are turning out WEAK pilots too chicken crap to fly in the same state as a level 3! What a joke!

In the end they are what they are. DCA IS A BUSINESS! They aren't a non profit organization. THEY MAKE MONEY! TONS OF IT! Once they have your money, they could give a crap less about you.

 

[planediveguy]

I will take you up on that offer next week.

Please do!

 

[planediveguy]

I was too young to actually see her in action, but have talked with the guys who did. Spiral ascent over the air base until they were out of sight, then off to the wild blue yonder. That's flying!

One of my captains on the Charter company was a crew chief on the "Habu"... lots of good stories too...

 

[planediveguy]

It's still far below a living wage... $18.00/hr is closer, plus the normal perks.
Also getting paid for the time you are there, not just billable hours.
Right now, you're paying $12.50/hr, no health care (employer provided) and you are charging $54.00/hr for that instructor.

When working for contractors, they were charging $65.00/hr, I was being paid $26.00/hr, plus health, dental, vision and a funds matched 401K.

I realize instructing is a transient position, but there has to be some equal ground.

You cannot realistically expect to keep anyone who is only getting paid $12.50/hr without benefits to consider keeping their position to help you get through a lean time (lack of instructors).
From the instructors I have spoken with on the subject, they are there from early in the morning to late in the evening, with maybe billing 4 hours.
Some less than that, when you average the total hours being "on call" at the site with the amount of money received, the pay level is far less than $12.50/hr.

Let's take an average day: You arrive at 0700 hrs, leave at 1900 hrs and only bill 4 hrs. At $12.50 thats $50.00 for the company requiring you to be on site for 12 hours. That means you actually got paid $4.17/hr, which is less than minimum wage.
Out of that billing the company gets $216.00 and you receive $50.00.
To me that means you have a very high profit margin, high overhead or both.

We all agree with you, and would be raising all if possible. Reality is that it is not as simple as pushing a button. Also there is no reason to be on site for 14 hours and only bill 4, specially with the current instructor to student loads. Some instructors actually can bring home as much as management does, dependig on the amount of activities they schedule..

 

[planediveguy]

The cirrus is NOT a training aircraft. PERIOD! Just wait until the first knucklehead taxis out and forgets to untie the tail. (seen it happen there many times) The cessna just won't go anywhere. The cirrus will be ripped apart! Now go and find me someone today that can fix that kind of mistake. Qualified people skilled in the repair of composite materials are next to impossible to find. Cirrus will LOVE this. They'll make tons of money.

Sorry but you are wrong... The SR-20 is an excellent trainer and it will make the new enrolees life a lot easier. The fleet is leased and we are getting new planes at the end of the leases. And there is a lot more training involved in how to handle the aricraft. Also read this word: "INSURANCE" that takes care of the occasional IQ challenged that falls through the cracks and still works for us...

The antiquated equipment is an embarassment. Same goes for the management. Their newest assistant chief is one of the scariest pilots I have ever had the opportunity to fly with!

The FAA didn't think so...

The management is a joke. Look at the fat guy in a flight suit, he can't even fit into it and why would he need a flight suit anyhow? EGO, this guy is airborne while still on the GROUND! Besides wtf is this guy STILL doing there after all these years?

Who are you referring to? The only manager wearing a flight suit was Paul, he is far from fat ( not my case though... but I am not in a flight suit...) and he is in charge of the Upset Recovery Training on the Extra 200... and now he is not even wearing the suit anymore. Be specific.

Ever walk down the hall and try to say hi to Larry? These people do everything to avoid eye contact and god forbid they treat you like a human and say HI to you! The smart ones left that crap far behind. DCA is overrated, full of lies and the quality of instruction has gone down the drain. The management treats the instructors like crap, pays them like slaves and risks their tickets everyday with junk aircraft.

So... when did you leave? You sound just like some of the losers, not the people with legitimate gripes, and yes I acknowledge that there are some out there, and this way of writing just takes credibility away from you...

Hey FABIO, question for you? IF the school is so screwed these days for instructors, why can't it's graduating students MAKE it though stands class? This should tell you something, they are turning out WEAK pilots too chicken crap to fly in the same state as a level 3! What a joke!

Not everyone gets through Standz, some don't study and think they earned it... sorry, not how it works. Failing a C-172 limitations test is incompetence at best, and laziness at worst and we don't need those instructors here. and it doesn't matter how bad we need instructors. These can teach somewhere else.

In the end they are what they are. DCA IS A BUSINESS! They aren't a non profit organization. THEY MAKE MONEY! TONS OF IT! Once they have your money, they could give a crap less about you.

No $#!T Sherlock! Really? DCA is a business? So it has to make a profit? Wow! You must be a genius!!!

I do and We do care though... for those that show effort, study hard, ask questions, is ready for the flight lessons, show up on time for activities, does homework and assigned tasks... for the slackers that blame everyone and everything else for their bad behaviour...that is a different story... we have 30 people enrolling this week alone and the demand for the school is one of the highest they've seen in years...

 

[kaiyo4u]

We all agree with you, and would be raising all if possible. Reality is that it is not as simple as pushing a button. Also there is no reason to be on site for 14 hours and only bill 4, specially with the current instructor to student loads. Some instructors actually can bring home as much as management does, dependig on the amount of activities they schedule..

The contractor I was referring to did indeed do that and they are a corporation. We were informed in a company meeting that we were all going to get raises to match the average for the area. To me at the time, it was a four dollar an hour raise.
I know it can be done, but I also know it won't be done at DCA. Too many levels of management to go through for authorization and just too much beaucracy.