Delta Connection Academy

My biggest gripe about DCA (and I don't know if it is any different elsewhere) is the lack of training. I expected a lot more teaching than what has been shown to me. If I had known it was mostly self study and you get graded on what you remember in the aircraft, I would have done it differently. How much feedback do you get with this kind of schooling?
With the current instructor shortage (many carrying 4 or more students), it is difficult to get feedback before you are in the plane. Then it costs much more...
You are right that DCA is a business and I believe they have a huge profit margin. Why else would Delta have come out of bankruptcy earlier than expected?
 
kaiyo4u said:
My biggest gripe about DCA (and I don't know if it is any different elsewhere) is the lack of training. I expected a lot more teaching than what has been shown to me. If I had known it was mostly self study and you get graded on what you remember in the aircraft, I would have done it differently. How much feedback do you get with this kind of schooling?
With the current instructor shortage (many carrying 4 or more students), it is difficult to get feedback before you are in the plane. Then it costs much more...
You are right that DCA is a business and I believe they have a huge profit margin. Why else would Delta have come out of bankruptcy earlier than expected?
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Dude...you've got to be kidding!
 
planediveguy said:
Dude...you've got to be kidding!
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No, I'm not!

Something that is heard from day one, " Just memorize it, you'll understand it later."
Is that teaching?
I think not, it's education based on rote, not on understanding. DCA is doing the minimum required based on 141 regs (and that is questionable) and you don't get anymore unless you pay for it.

Even when I was in the military and attended tech school (which is far more accelerated than DCA) we graded and reviewed homework (everyday) and tests (weekly) , which gave us more understanding of the subject matter. I completed the course as an honor student.
Does DCA do this? No, you're afraid someone will copy answers to your tests, when you should be generating multiple tests so they cannot do such things.
It's all about the Gleim and memorizing it so the FAA written can be passed. The same goes for your procedures in the aircraft. Who teaches those things, I haven't seen it. Everything I know now is because of study and understanding why these need to be done. Not memorize and understand later...
Does memorization eventually lead to understanding the subject matter, only after time and practical application. Of which some students still don't have a full understanding until after going into the "real" world and applying their rote there...

If anyone asks me, DCA will not get a recommendation from me. :sitaware:
 
kaiyo4u said:
No, I'm not!

Something that is heard from day one, " Just memorize it, you'll understand it later."
Is that teaching?
I think not, it's education based on rote, not on understanding. DCA is doing the minimum required based on 141 regs (and that is questionable) and you don't get anymore unless you pay for it.

Even when I was in the military and attended tech school (which is far more accelerated than DCA) we graded and reviewed homework (everyday) and tests (weekly) , which gave us more understanding of the subject matter. I completed the course as an honor student.
Does DCA do this? No, you're afraid someone will copy answers to your tests, when you should be generating multiple tests so they cannot do such things.
It's all about the Gleim and memorizing it so the FAA written can be passed. The same goes for your procedures in the aircraft. Who teaches those things, I haven't seen it. Everything I know now is because of study and understanding why these need to be done. Not memorize and understand later...
Does memorization eventually lead to understanding the subject matter, only after time and practical application. Of which some students still don't have a full understanding until after going into the "real" world and applying their rote there...

If anyone asks me, DCA will not get a recommendation from me. :sitaware:
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It appears to me that you got the wrong type of training from us. I had one instructor that did just what you escribed above and it sucked. However all the others were a lot more attentive and I learned a lot. Now with the FITS concept , rote is definitely not enough. Pilots won't be able to "piece meal" their training and instructors will all be teaching to the correlation level with the goal of increased situation awareness and strong ADM skills. I have just completed two CFII stage checks today and I already can see the difference...

Sorry to know you had a bad experience..
 
planediveguy said:
It appears to me that you got the wrong type of training from us. I had one instructor that did just what you escribed above and it sucked. However all the others were a lot more attentive and I learned a lot. Now with the FITS concept , rote is definitely not enough. Pilots won't be able to "piece meal" their training and instructors will all be teaching to the correlation level with the goal of increased situation awareness and strong ADM skills. I have just completed two CFII stage checks today and I already can see the difference...

Sorry to know you had a bad experience..
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I certainly hope the standards of training do improve and are standard throughout. My current instructor is good. I have no complaints of him. I just hope he gets into MEI and through it before I get to CAMEL.
You have to remember, the memorize and understand later has been consistent with DCA.
Please forgive my ignorance on some of the acronyms you quoted, what is FITS and ADM?
 
kaiyo4u said:
I certainly hope the standards of training do improve and are standard throughout. My current instructor is good. I have no complaints of him. I just hope he gets into MEI and through it before I get to CAMEL.
You have to remember, the memorize and understand later has been consistent with DCA.
Please forgive my ignorance on some of the acronyms you quoted, what is FITS and ADM?
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FITS - FAA Industry Training Standards - more info on this link: http://www.faa.gov/education_research/training/fits/

ADM - Aeronautical Decision Making.

There is part of the "memorize and understand later" that can't be avoided though. The amount of info you need to know and the amount of time allocated for it do not work. You will need to learn how to sort the "Need to know" from the "Nice to Know". This will help you on your training in the future. However there is no excuse not to get answers to your questions when you have them. If that is the case, please let me know, you know where my office is and I will help you.
 
From a UPS 767 second year FO DCA was everything that was advertised. It is up to you to make things happen for yourself. All of the tools are available for you to use.

Also, as a former military person.............

The training does not stand up to military training but you have to remember that you are a civi now and things are different.

Fabio PM me when you get a chance.

MB767
 
MB767 said:
From a UPS 767 second year FO DCA was everything that was advertised. It is up to you to make things happen for yourself. All of the tools are available for you to use.

Also, as a former military person.............

The training does not stand up to military training but you have to remember that you are a civi now and things are different.

Fabio PM me when you get a chance.

MB767
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PM Sent...
 
DCApilot2006 said:
And you got paid HOW MUCH to run this here? Give me a break man. When you went through the academy the cost was around 30K. I was there then, and I was there in 2005. You do not have a CLUE what is going on around the academy these days. I would like to ask for the last 2 minutes of my life back after reading your long post. I'm too tired to even think about replying to this one.

(looks like the sales marketing team is working overtime today:yup:)
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Nothing against this guy DGROSS but he is the guy who came into indoc in his Comair uniform and talked about how great DCA was. I doubt he was doing this for free so I do not know how much to put into a statement made by a paid spokesman of the academy.
 
dgross7241 said:
I'm employed by NetJets...not DCA. My compensation to run my reply...$0. I was paid $7.75 an hour as an instructor at DCA and made just over $8,000 that year, according to my tax returns. I should have taken out stock in Swanson foods for all the TV dinners I had off my luxurious card/dining room table. Everyone sacrifices to get a professional flying job. Ask anyone...with the exception of military trained pilots, what they had to do to get their first flying job. In fact most professionals including attorneys and physicians would tell you the same thing. Assistant District Attorneys make peanuts compared to what they paid to get through law school. Ask any doctor how much they were paid through residency and internship and ask how much their medical school bills are. I would bet nearly everyone has a story to tell.

Given what I've sacrificed, I still would do it over again. In the end, it's finding what you love to do and then finding a way to be paid for it. At Comair, I flew with numerous Captains who told me they wouldn't consider sending their kids to any other flight academy other than DCA. (By the way, they were paid nothing by DCA either). Unfortunately, in this industry, you do tend to get what you pay for. As a professional pilot I'm effectively working half a month, being paid more in my second year than I was after 15 years as a cop. The Academy got me to where I wanted to be...period. The cost of that....priceless. By they way....DCA is currently upgrading their fleet to all new Cirrus aircraft and building a new simulator hall. All the best...good luck and take care!
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I assume you were paid when you came to the academy in your Comair uniform and sang DCA praises?
 
planediveguy said:
Hey DCApilot2006.... time to change the sentence at the bottom of your posts.... "...12.50 an hour!" is more appropriate... A new bonus structure is currently in the works to pay the instructors and I will update when that happens...
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Isn't $12.50 for the check and advanced instructors? Do the regular private-commercial get paid $11?

I always loved it when you were made to wait for hours sometimes to meet with the group when they were busy or just not there when they were supposed to be. Like when one group leader likes to sneak out with her employee b/f instead of being in the office. How much do you get paid to wait around? How about when the weather is horrible and there are dozens of thunderstorms around the airport and the Flight Sup makes you wait another 45 minutes to cancel...just in case.

$11 an hour. To bill 40 hours a week requires you to live, and I mean live at that place.
 
The Juice said:
Isn't $12.50 for the check and advanced instructors? Do the regular private-commercial get paid $11?

I always loved it when you were made to wait for hours sometimes to meet with the group when they were busy or just not there when they were supposed to be. Like when one group leader likes to sneak out with her employee b/f instead of being in the office. How much do you get paid to wait around? How about when the weather is horrible and there are dozens of thunderstorms around the airport and the Flight Sup makes you wait another 45 minutes to cancel...just in case.

$11 an hour. To bill 40 hours a week requires you to live, and I mean live at that place.
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I understand the pressure the company puts you under to bill those hours. Been there, done that...
The flight sup has caused me some heartache in the past and money out the window. For my private check ride the weather was very questionable and I was forced to go. We were leaving on the Osteen departure when the FI said my flight controls, put the plane in a Vx climb to go over a cloud. He then got clearance from ATC to go west. WE turned west, went back down to 1500. Over Monroe he requested 1000 feet because of clouds. At that point I should have said go back. He got actual coming back into SFB. So much for my VFR check ride. Plus the money that had to be paid out for that.... I complained to the group leader and his statement was, we have to stand behind our instructors. For me: Never again!

Instrument, I had ten FI's. Yes I said ten FI's. I had made an agreemant with one and after he was in the right seat, he started treating me like a bastard child... What's worse, he was so jittery in the cockpit and doesn't know the meaning of a sterile cockpit. His actions not only made me nervous, but his talking made me miss radio calls.

I have a good instructor now. He is showing me maneuvers if don't get them first try. After seeing and feeling how he is controlling the aircraft makes a lot of difference in how I perform the maneuver again.

I will leave this academy after multi. Too many other places to learn and far less expensive. Plus the pay is better.

I had a discussion with one of the mgrs. the other day and he said they offered the instructors health care, but they had to drop it because no one signed up for it. Gee I wonder why. With the little that is paid there and then they wanted you to pay for your health insurance and it was a sizable amount considering how little they pay. It would make your pay shrink. If you're barely getting by now, what would it be like if that was coming out of your check....
 
kaiyo4u said:
I had a discussion with one of the mgrs. the other day and he said they offered the instructors health care, but they had to drop it because no one signed up for it. Gee I wonder why. With the little that is paid there and then they wanted you to pay for your health insurance and it was a sizable amount considering how little they pay. It would make your pay shrink. If you're barely getting by now, what would it be like if that was coming out of your check....
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Pat Murphy gave the instructors the same sales pitch about buying their heath care right before he got canned. I decided it was more important to EAT than to worry about a trip to the hospital. Use and abuse is the policy at DCA.
 
I have learned from past experience how companies and corporations will treat you by the benefits they provide to their employees. The better the benefits and pay, the more they value you as a member of their team and vice versa for the companies that offer no or little benefits.
For a company to be quality, they have to treat their employees with respect and value them as an intregal part of the company.

As far as making a fortune, $54.00/hr is a drop in the bucket for an hourly rate. But, paying the ones actually doing the work only $11.50 only shows the company has either way too much overhead or are scalping their customers or both.
 
white50 said:
I've been reading horror stories about the DCA Sanford campus for some time now. Does anyone have info on the BCC/DCA campus in South Florida?

I live ~ 10 min away from them and I currently attend BCC (Broward Community College) so the transition would be super easy for me. I know there are other schools to choose from but the program they offer down here is an AS degree with the option to transfer to any Florida School for a Bachelor-ate degree. The logistics alone tempt me. Is it really that bad?
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Yes, I was a student there, at the BCC campus in South Florida. After 100 hours and $17,000, (without even soloing!) after being assaulted by so many mediocre instructors (most of them are young with zero experience), I decided to make the move. I went to American Flyers in Pompano Beach, and 15 hours later I got my private. I heard horror stories from other students about DCA and I did make couple of great friends. Customer service is bad, lousy and cranky instructors, very bad airplanes (now they started using the new Cirrus… Could you imagine getting your private without even experiencing one full stall?) and I am still waiting to get a $7000 refund from them. It’s not worth the money; it’s a big mistake that I have made. I don’t even think it’s worth the time to write and complain to the Better Business Bureau.
 
DCA is a joke. This is the only truth about DCA (and anyone else that says different is a liar or a fool): DCA has a lot of financing options. Once they get a check from key, teri or sallie mae, they do what ever they want.

They steal from you as a student and abuse you as an instructor. If you think it is cool to charge you 120 for a pos 1978 cessna 172 and 60 buck for an instructor that get paid 10 or 11 an hour, then dca is the place for you. Good luck on your first gps approach... hopefully you do that by mei.

For all those who think you have no option, the regionals are hiring at legal min camel, instr...

BTW, all you DCA instructors, how would you like to fly more multi than single in brand new all glass Diamonds? Make more money with no DCA BS???
see this thread and leave the losers behind.
http://forums.jetcareers.com/jobs-available/53809-cfi-cfii-naples-florida-kapf.html
 
granlistillo said:
DCA is a joke. This is the only truth about DCA (and anyone else that says different is a liar or a fool): DCA has a lot of financing options. Once they get a check from key, teri or sallie mae, they do what ever they want.

They steal from you as a student and abuse you as an instructor. If you think it is cool to charge you 120 for a pos 1978 cessna 172 and 60 buck for an instructor that get paid 10 or 11 an hour, then dca is the place for you. Good luck on your first gps approach... hopefully you do that by mei.

For all those who think you have no option, the regionals are hiring at legal min camel, instr...

BTW, all you DCA instructors, how would you like to fly more multi than single in brand new all glass Diamonds? Make more money with no DCA BS???
see this thread and leave the losers behind.
http://forums.jetcareers.com/jobs-available/53809-cfi-cfii-naples-florida-kapf.html
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You are posting wrong info here buddy... the 172 is only 99 bucks an hour and the CIRRUS SR-20 is 119 bucks and hour... as I understand the lowest cost for a CIRRUS. And I guess you know they do have a GPS on them...and the instructors got a hefty pay increase... better luck next time...

To advertise your school you should contact Doug and place a colorful banner on the top corner instead...
 
The Juice said:
Isn't $12.50 for the check and advanced instructors? Do the regular private-commercial get paid $11?

I always loved it when you were made to wait for hours sometimes to meet with the group when they were busy or just not there when they were supposed to be. Like when one group leader likes to sneak out with her employee b/f instead of being in the office. How much do you get paid to wait around? How about when the weather is horrible and there are dozens of thunderstorms around the airport and the Flight Sup makes you wait another 45 minutes to cancel...just in case.

$11 an hour. To bill 40 hours a week requires you to live, and I mean live at that place.
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Not anymore Juicy...actually there is too many hours available due to the overall instructor shortage in the industry. CFI's now get up to 25 bucks an hour if they are CFI qualified and have billed 70 hours already...the guys are billing an average of 200 hours right now... They will, for the first time, face a pay cut when they get to the regionals...
 
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