Delta Air Lines Against ATC Privatization
- Thread starter RobertB
- Start date
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
I'm going to miss Richard Anderson's Delta when he retires.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Those are really separate issues. I don't support privatization, but I do support user fees.
ScorpionStinger
Well-Known Member
Good article. Not only on privatization, but among other topics such as employee compensation. Everything comparison stated in that article why Delta is truely the leader amongst its peers. Delts does not simply following "Group Think."
BEEF SUPREME
Well-Known Member
Privatize ATC? Ah! The prophecy shall be fulfilled:
genot
Well-Known Member
Just a thought that stemmed from the following quote in the linked article. "The voters just don't want something privatized that they think is going well," Pollock said. "Eighty percent said they thought the FAA was doing a good job operating the nation's air traffic control system." Um, OK, how would the voters know? Probably one half of one percent of the population are active ATC. That's like suggesting that 13B says the pilots did a fantastic job 4 out of 5 legs. And the argument in our favor is saying we don't need to put 13B in charge of ATC just because they have an MBA?
Unless ATC gets a reality show to spread awareness it'll happen in my career. Maybe we need to lead with frequent flyers and wet ink PPLs in 777 simulators. Maybe follow up with Les Abend in the sim at N90.
Unless ATC gets a reality show to spread awareness it'll happen in my career. Maybe we need to lead with frequent flyers and wet ink PPLs in 777 simulators. Maybe follow up with Les Abend in the sim at N90.
z987k
Well-Known Member
You'll have to move to Alaska. There'll be a rider just like for flight service to keep it government(useful so people don't die).
Ajax
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
yeah user fees I think are silly, it's just another necessary tax selectively aimed. If the NAS is built for the public good, why penalize those who use it for its intended purpose.
I mean, yes I can see the thought behind it. It's a politician's easy idea to bring in some extra money, I just like the money being gathered elsewhere
I mean, yes I can see the thought behind it. It's a politician's easy idea to bring in some extra money, I just like the money being gathered elsewhere
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I applaud Delta for taking a stand against privatization unlike NATCA, currently, who isn't adamantly taking steps against it by trying to walk the politically correct line and say,"... we need reliable funding and want a seat at the table in the event that privatization occurs..." Screw that! Stand up for safety and security of the NAS not sell it to the lowest bidder.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
The problem with what you're saying is that the NAS is already funded by the users...it's just not all of them. The airlines are funding almost all of it, while everyone else gets a nearly free ride. I agree with you that if the NAS is a public benefit, it should be paid for with the general fund like any other public service. But that's not what the current system is, and no one has proposed that. So without user fees, the airlines continue to get screwed. Don't you work for an airline?
z987k
Well-Known Member
I'm curious what the usage statistics are for certificated carriers vs GA owner operators like you and me. Most of my ATC usage in my plane is a takeoff and landing clearance at my home field and weather cam requests from FSS.
I have a feeling the airlines would still pay 99% of it. Because they use 99% of it.
Privatization seems like a terrible idea. This is not something where capitalism will improve the system and make it lean and efficient. What will happen is they will weigh the costs of increases safety measure against profits more than they already do vs costs. I can't imagine the things we have today that would not be around if the ATC system had to make money.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
z987k said:
I've posted the numbers before, but frankly, I'm too lazy to go digging around for them again, because no one is ever convinced. It seems to be as much a third rail issue as abortion or gun control around here. But no, the business jet and turboprop operators aren't paying anything close to their share of the taxes. As for the little guys like us, there has never been a proposal to impose user fees on us anyway.
Just want to be clear that privatization and user fees are two completely separate ideas. All proposals for user fees so far have not included privatization. I'm a supporter of user fees, but an opponent of privatization.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Ajax
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Let me rephrase, I don't want to get hit with fees if I take a Cessna up to play around.
If user fees were instituted it'd be, imo, detrimental to ga. I'm not sure how it's affect the airlines, our margins are already small
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
That's the whole point. One of the reasons that the margins are so small is that a large portion of the ticket price is going towards taxes and fees, because the airlines are subsidizing everyone else who doesn't pay their fair share.
z987k
Well-Known Member
The airlines already pretty much pay for it from what I understand.
pianokeys
MEL NO MUFFS
We privatized our ATC in Canada. Nav Canada runs the show now, not Transport Canada anymore. Yes, there are fees, and the fees are passed onto the flying public on their ticket fares. AC or WS won't publish how much Nav Canada charges them for use per flight, they just wrap it up in the ticket.
Nav Canada isn't an NPO like some would believe, they post profits and invest that money in multiple things like markets or new technology like space based ADS-B.
The good news is, when the government privatized ATC, they set up legislation that states that Nav Canada can only rip off users so much. It would be illegal for them to overcharge, they're only allowed to charge what it actually costs them to do whatever your paying for.