surreal1221
Well-Known Member
I'd go.
Decisions, Decisions...
- Thread starter ctab5060X
- Start date
fender_jag
Well-Known Member
Stay put.
Boris Badenov
Fortis Leader
The only downside I see to the ag flying is you presumably don't want to be dodging telephone poles for the rest of your life. Will a potential interviewer somewhere down the line wonder whether you're going to bail to smuggle guns in the Sudan once it gets boring?
That said, I'd do it in a heartbeat, but I'm not exactly the poster boy for good career decision making, at least vis a vis climbing the airline ladder.
Like killbilly said, nice problem to have.
That said, I'd do it in a heartbeat, but I'm not exactly the poster boy for good career decision making, at least vis a vis climbing the airline ladder.
Like killbilly said, nice problem to have.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
Like Ken said, talk to the family. If that's taken care of and you've got the support there, then the decision gets tough. John's got a point (and he's the one that really knocked the sense into my head on taking PCL over XJT, ironically enough) when it comes to stability. Sucks right now 'cause there's NO seniority movement. Okay, maybe 2-3 slots a month is what I'm averaging, and none of that is in base, so it doesn't really matter that much.
I know one CA got an LOA to go do ag flying, but here's the problem you'll run into. Sure, they say we're "overstaffed," but they're only offering LOAs on the CA side right now. Even then, it's subject to an immediate recall. If the ag job comes attatched to a contract, you're hosed.
It's a tough call either way. If it were me, I'd stay put. Then again, it's a lot easier to say that when you're sitting in the comfy financial chair on the left side of the airplane. Odds seem to be swinging in favor of us getting a contract at some point this year, but it could be LATE this year by the time all the red tape, hoops, cooling off periods, etc are over and done with.
If you were senior to me, this would be a no-brainer.
I know one CA got an LOA to go do ag flying, but here's the problem you'll run into. Sure, they say we're "overstaffed," but they're only offering LOAs on the CA side right now. Even then, it's subject to an immediate recall. If the ag job comes attatched to a contract, you're hosed.
It's a tough call either way. If it were me, I'd stay put. Then again, it's a lot easier to say that when you're sitting in the comfy financial chair on the left side of the airplane. Odds seem to be swinging in favor of us getting a contract at some point this year, but it could be LATE this year by the time all the red tape, hoops, cooling off periods, etc are over and done with.
If you were senior to me, this would be a no-brainer.
ctab5060X
Well-Known Member
To those that have posted responses, thank you. To those that gave detailed answers, thanks even more. It is giving me plenty to mull over and think about for the weekend.
I guess I need to address some of the more common things that are showing up in this thread. Stuff like family, my wife, quality of life, stability, etc.
I have had the opportunity to talk things over with my family... namely, both my wife and my Mother. My wife supports me no matter what. Her only concern is for our happiness. This opportunity just might be what we both need to be extremely happy with where our marriage is taking us. Right now, I am a junior FO, with just enough seniority to bounce between a highspeed line and reserve (build up line then), so me being able to have a second job is hard, especially when I go from one month of being available every day, to the next when I am gone on 3 and 4 day trips. In order for us to survive financially right now, she has two jobs, one from almost 8-5 M-F and another that she works at later in the night for about 3 hours. Needless to say, it is very stressful and hard on her not only being away from home all the time and hardly seeing me, but also being fatigued every day of the week. With this opportunity I have before me, more than likely she will end up working as a bookkeeper for the flying service, working less hours and working with me. I will be able to sleep in my bed at my house with my wife each and every night. That in itself is as valuable to me as anything.
As far as the rest of my family (that would be only my Mother and my Mother-in-law)... My Mom is indifferent. Yes, I am her only child, but she also wants me to be happy, and she sees this as an opportunity to get back into a segment of aviation that I love. When I first told her about it, she only mentioned that she has always wanted to get back and visit that part of the world. I have not talked to my mother-in-law yet, but my wife has.
I know the type of lifestyle this job will bring. I've been there before, even have a stack of t-shirts to go with it. Thing is, I initially left for reasons of my own that are personal enough I will not share them here, but let's just say that I have spent the last several years "searching" for where I belong in aviation. I am not one who has every truly desired to fly for the majors in (insert type here... 747, A330, etc). I was born and raised in an aviation household, so it is really all I know. Really don't care where or what I am flying, just as long as I am flying. As of right now, this opportunity also presents much better long term possibilities than flying 121 does. Sure, if I stay, I will eventually have a better QOL, and I will eventually upgrade. With the other, there is immediate chances for rapid growth from a single pilot operation (mostly) to an operation with 2-3 pilots and planes if not more. There are also the possibilities of opening (or buying) a charter operation also. In short, the potential is there for a full time flying job to end up in something like a chief pilot, director of operations, or manager/pilot. As far as the QOL, what does it matter that I have 18 days off when my wife is working two jobs. I still won't see her that much, and to me, seeing my wife every day and our (not just my) QOL trumps what type of aircraft/operation I am flying.
I guess after reading this, it seems my mind is pretty made up. I have a meeting with my friend on Tuesday. We are sitting down face to face and talking this over in depth, so I will know more then.
Again, to those that made comments already, thank you...
To those who still want to make comments, please do, you might bring up something I (or everyone else) hasn't thought about.
I guess I need to address some of the more common things that are showing up in this thread. Stuff like family, my wife, quality of life, stability, etc.
I have had the opportunity to talk things over with my family... namely, both my wife and my Mother. My wife supports me no matter what. Her only concern is for our happiness. This opportunity just might be what we both need to be extremely happy with where our marriage is taking us. Right now, I am a junior FO, with just enough seniority to bounce between a highspeed line and reserve (build up line then), so me being able to have a second job is hard, especially when I go from one month of being available every day, to the next when I am gone on 3 and 4 day trips. In order for us to survive financially right now, she has two jobs, one from almost 8-5 M-F and another that she works at later in the night for about 3 hours. Needless to say, it is very stressful and hard on her not only being away from home all the time and hardly seeing me, but also being fatigued every day of the week. With this opportunity I have before me, more than likely she will end up working as a bookkeeper for the flying service, working less hours and working with me. I will be able to sleep in my bed at my house with my wife each and every night. That in itself is as valuable to me as anything.
As far as the rest of my family (that would be only my Mother and my Mother-in-law)... My Mom is indifferent. Yes, I am her only child, but she also wants me to be happy, and she sees this as an opportunity to get back into a segment of aviation that I love. When I first told her about it, she only mentioned that she has always wanted to get back and visit that part of the world. I have not talked to my mother-in-law yet, but my wife has.
I know the type of lifestyle this job will bring. I've been there before, even have a stack of t-shirts to go with it. Thing is, I initially left for reasons of my own that are personal enough I will not share them here, but let's just say that I have spent the last several years "searching" for where I belong in aviation. I am not one who has every truly desired to fly for the majors in (insert type here... 747, A330, etc). I was born and raised in an aviation household, so it is really all I know. Really don't care where or what I am flying, just as long as I am flying. As of right now, this opportunity also presents much better long term possibilities than flying 121 does. Sure, if I stay, I will eventually have a better QOL, and I will eventually upgrade. With the other, there is immediate chances for rapid growth from a single pilot operation (mostly) to an operation with 2-3 pilots and planes if not more. There are also the possibilities of opening (or buying) a charter operation also. In short, the potential is there for a full time flying job to end up in something like a chief pilot, director of operations, or manager/pilot. As far as the QOL, what does it matter that I have 18 days off when my wife is working two jobs. I still won't see her that much, and to me, seeing my wife every day and our (not just my) QOL trumps what type of aircraft/operation I am flying.
I guess after reading this, it seems my mind is pretty made up. I have a meeting with my friend on Tuesday. We are sitting down face to face and talking this over in depth, so I will know more then.
Again, to those that made comments already, thank you...
To those who still want to make comments, please do, you might bring up something I (or everyone else) hasn't thought about.
ctab,
You and your wife are facing a huge decision. This certainly is one that should not be taken lightly, and I think you are covering all the bases. A very big plus in your situation is having a wife that supports you in this. That is a huge positive.
It sounds like your mom is also going to support your decision. That is also a plus. Moms also worry about their kids. It is your responsibility to keep as much worry off of her as possible. Example,,, Every year they are going to see the TV headline,"Cropduster crashes in podunk county, pilot killed." We always heard of these deals pretty quickly after it happened so I always made it a point to get out of the plane the next time in and go call Mom. She was allright after hearing "my voice" It really helps to relieve some of the worry because they immediately think it is you that has had the problem. ,,,Call your mom.
Knowing your background, You pretty much know what you are getting into. Lots of great things about this job, but there are also some crappy parts also. I'm sure you are well aware of the positives and negatives. Just like any other job, I guess.
After your meeting, you will have a much better feel for the operation and everything that goes along with that. Then the decision will be much easier.
While this part of aviation has given me some of the very darkest days of my life, it has also given me the absolute best. I have made a great living and had a great quality of life. If I had it to do over, I would do it in a heartbeat. (That's just me though) YMMV!!
Good luck on your decision and let us know.
T-Cart
ctab5060X
Well-Known Member
Good for you for making the decision. Sounds like you're making it for the right reasons, too. Maybe we'll actually get to fly together before you head out the door.
I'd like that. Looks like there is a chance I will be on RSV in April anyways.
ctab5060X
Well-Known Member
Going to work in the dark and getting off work in the dark.I hate that part.
And the reverse of that... going to work in the last of daylight and watching the sun rise the next morning...:nana2:
Number1atNumber2
Tries to keep it fun.
That is pretty sweet getting to fly during those times! Glad you've come to your decision. It's great your wife and mom are behind you no matter what. It sounds like not only will AG be better for you, but also your wife and your relationship. Sure things could get better eventually as you said, but there is always the possibility eventually doesn't actually happen, or you get there and look back at what you missed.
Good luck regardless!
typhoonpilot
Well-Known Member
Not an easy decision, but it brings to mind an old friend and roommate from my first commuter job. Back then commuters only paid $11.00 an hour so a roommate was pretty essential to afford a reasonable apartment. My roommate was a few years older and had recently joined Wings West, while I had just joined WestAir. He had been an Ag pilot for 10 years. In one of our first conversations I asked him how much he used to make as an Ag pilot versus what he makes as a commuter F.O. The difference was significant ( in favor of staying an Ag pilot ). So I then asked him why he left that job. He had a two primary reasons. The one that I can still quote to this day was, " because everyone I knew in the business 10 years ago is now dead ". His second reason had to do with the long term affect to chemical exposure.
Another more recent story is that of a fellow Emirates pilot. He joined slightly before I did and right at the time he was about to upgrade he decided to quit and return to Australia. He had three young children and a lovely wife and just wanted to go back and raise cattle inland from Brisbane. He died tragically in an Ag accident just last year:
http://www.pprune.org/middle-east/345460-vale-greg-cochran.html
For those that are saying to think about family, there is considerable risk to Ag flying and the chances that the wife and children are left without a husband/father is significantly greater than remaining at a commuter airline. That must be weighed into the decision.
Typhoonpilot
Another more recent story is that of a fellow Emirates pilot. He joined slightly before I did and right at the time he was about to upgrade he decided to quit and return to Australia. He had three young children and a lovely wife and just wanted to go back and raise cattle inland from Brisbane. He died tragically in an Ag accident just last year:
http://www.pprune.org/middle-east/345460-vale-greg-cochran.html
For those that are saying to think about family, there is considerable risk to Ag flying and the chances that the wife and children are left without a husband/father is significantly greater than remaining at a commuter airline. That must be weighed into the decision.
Typhoonpilot
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Call me a "weenie" then, because I've never had any desire to do this kind of work. Sitting at FL350 reading the NY Times is my kind of job. Dodging telephone polls at 3am? Not so much.
killbilly
Vocals, Lyrics, Triangle, Washboard, Kittens
One other thing...
I got to sit in an Ag-Tractor (whatever the plane is in the pic above) the day of my PPL checkride.
That was, without a doubt, the coolest thing I've ever sat on or in. It felt like mounting a WW2 fighter, and you don't so much sit in the airplane as you wedge into the mechanism. It's a beast. An awesome beast. Wanted desperately to fly it.
I got to sit in an Ag-Tractor (whatever the plane is in the pic above) the day of my PPL checkride.
That was, without a doubt, the coolest thing I've ever sat on or in. It felt like mounting a WW2 fighter, and you don't so much sit in the airplane as you wedge into the mechanism. It's a beast. An awesome beast. Wanted desperately to fly it.
Cessna414JJB
Unknown Member
I'm still leaning towards the Ag thing.
Harder work, longer hours, smaller plane, the danger you allow it to come with, getting up at 3:30 knowing full well you knees will hurt by the time you come home... yet, you know what you are doing, have experience and fun with it, have the luck of being married to a woman who lets you do it and some employer that appreciates and values you and your opinion...
Against that is certain uncertainty with the airline business, with seniority being nothing anymore. Your shop closes doors tomorrow and your unemployed here or there. Except, you have a chance to make more money and be surrounded by better people until then. I admire you for these opportunities. There are many people, including me, who would prefer the Ag plane over many others but the doors are closed for us.
There is nothig wrong with working hard for your buck, still. It has just become something nobody wants to do anymore, and if flying an airliner would be "hard work" the highschool kids would certainly not want to do it. If you don't see Ag flying as a prestige thing, you are already ahead of the pack...
Harder work, longer hours, smaller plane, the danger you allow it to come with, getting up at 3:30 knowing full well you knees will hurt by the time you come home... yet, you know what you are doing, have experience and fun with it, have the luck of being married to a woman who lets you do it and some employer that appreciates and values you and your opinion...
Against that is certain uncertainty with the airline business, with seniority being nothing anymore. Your shop closes doors tomorrow and your unemployed here or there. Except, you have a chance to make more money and be surrounded by better people until then. I admire you for these opportunities. There are many people, including me, who would prefer the Ag plane over many others but the doors are closed for us.
There is nothig wrong with working hard for your buck, still. It has just become something nobody wants to do anymore, and if flying an airliner would be "hard work" the highschool kids would certainly not want to do it. If you don't see Ag flying as a prestige thing, you are already ahead of the pack...