DCI carrier and jumpseating

[kellwolf]

Well, I tried. All I can say is I don't see Delta changing the policy...and since the majority of the people who work for DCI carriers are paying the $50/$200 non-rev fee they have no economic reason to lower it. Basic supply/demand. I guess it comes full circle back to this - if you don't like the fact that you can't sit in the back w/o paying the $50, then don't jumpseat on delta or pay the $50.

In reality, if you pay the $50, and non-rev anywhere international (you can't jumpseat internationally even in the cabin on any carriers AFIK being a dci carrier) it will have more than paid for itself. YMMV

Yeah, you an jumpseat internationally. You just can't sit up front. DCI carrier or not. Hence the reason an American Eagle or whomever can jumpseat all they want internationally (they just have to pay the taxes), but us contract DCI guys start getting charged extra after a certain point just because we "occupy a seat in the back." They call it "non-reving" because you can't sit up front internationally. I can walk up to jetBlue, list for a jumpseat to Columbia and go down there just fine as long as there is a seat in the back. Same for a jetBlue guy on Delta that wants to go to YYZ or London. So, TECHNICALLY, a DCI guy can't "jumpseat" b/c of the nutso nomenclature on our travel benefits.

I know they're not going to change the policy. Heck, their business model is built on "If you don't like it, tough. You don't have any other options." Just look at some of the prices out of MEM and MSP, and you can see that. The only reason I paid the fee in the first place was because I was in MEM. I had no other options. Now that I'm not, well, I don't really plan on paying it next year anyway. I'm RARELY on Delta at this point anyway.

 

[Rocketman99]

[quote="kellwolf, post: 1960828, member: 1274]"Hopefully no one decides to exercise their "captain's authority" if you non-rev on a Pinnacle flight.

You're not suggesting a captain can use his authority to keep a non rev off a flight just because? They better have a very good reason to deny boarding.[/quote]

While that would be a highly unlikely scenario and asuming you're referring to the j/s, he/she certainly could. They would be a pretty large dbag for doing it, but they certainly could.

 

[Cptnchia]

While that would be a highly unlikely scenario and asuming you're referring to the j/s, he/she certainly could. They would be a pretty large dbag for doing it, but they certainly could.

No, not referring to the jumpseat. Go back and read what Kellwolf wrote. He was talking about denying a non-rev, sitting in the back.

 

[SmitteyB]

My FO (a Pinnacle FO) didn't have the money last week to pay the $50 fee (since it was his anniversary) and Delta wouldn't let him ride a Pinnacle jumpseat. He didn't get to go home. Sorry, but Delta doesn't own that seat. It belongs to the CA.

 

[Buzo]

My FO (a Pinnacle FO) didn't have the money last week to pay the $50 fee (since it was his anniversary) and Delta wouldn't let him ride a Pinnacle jumpseat. He didn't get to go home. Sorry, but Delta doesn't own that seat. It belongs to the CA.

Delta does own the reservation system that allows the seat to be used though.

 

[SmitteyB]

Delta does own the reservation system that allows the seat to be used though.

I just don't believe that is a good enough reason.

A jumpseat is a union negotiated benefit, not a piece of IP.

 

[Cptnchia]

Sorry, but Delta doesn't own that seat. It belongs to the CA.

Actually, the seat belongs to the company. They decide how it's to be used. Take a look in your FOM. It should delineate who and at what priority someone gets to ride. Did the company ask all the captains how to put the list together? That said, the captain usually has to give permission to ride the jumpseat, but the company can decide who actually gets to ask in the first place.

 

[kellwolf]

Actually, the seat belongs to the company. They decide how it's to be used. Take a look in your FOM. It should delineate who and at what priority someone gets to ride. Did the company ask all the captains how to put the list together? That said, the captain usually has to give permission to ride the jumpseat, but the company can decide who actually gets to ask in the first place.

By "company" do you mean "Delta" or "Pinnacle?" What it boils down to is a GATE AGENT is the one that caused the problem. We don't have to pay $50 to ride on our own metal. In fact, that violates our CBA. What he should have done is gotten the CA involved in the situation. With only a few exceptions, he likely would have been on that jumpseat.

 

[ClearedToThe]

Yeah, you an jumpseat internationally. You just can't sit up front. DCI carrier or not. Hence the reason an American Eagle or whomever can jumpseat all they want internationally (they just have to pay the taxes), but us contract DCI guys start getting charged extra after a certain point just because we "occupy a seat in the back." They call it "non-reving" because you can't sit up front internationally. I can walk up to jetBlue, list for a jumpseat to Columbia and go down there just fine as long as there is a seat in the back. Same for a jetBlue guy on Delta that wants to go to YYZ or London. So, TECHNICALLY, a DCI guy can't "jumpseat" b/c of the nutso nomenclature on our travel benefits.

I know they're not going to change the policy. Heck, their business model is built on "If you don't like it, tough. You don't have any other options." Just look at some of the prices out of MEM and MSP, and you can see that. The only reason I paid the fee in the first place was because I was in MEM. I had no other options. Now that I'm not, well, I don't really plan on paying it next year anyway. I'm RARELY on Delta at this point anyway.

Very few regionals have international jumpseat agreements with other airlines. Have you ever tried to jumpseat internationally on AA or Eagle? Good luck...can't be done (at least I'm pretty sure pinnacle doesn't have that agreement...again, most/(all?) dci carriers don't either)

 

[kellwolf]

Very few regionals have international jumpseat agreements with other airlines. Have you ever tried to jumpseat internationally on AA or Eagle? Good luck...can't be done (at least I'm pretty sure pinnacle doesn't have that agreement...again, most/(all?) dci carriers don't either)

The only difference in jumpseating domestically and jumpseating internationally is internationally you can't sit up front and you have to pay the taxes. The "agreement" is a reciprocal agreement with the airline. There aren't two lists, one for domestic and one for international. Took an AA guy to Canada the other day without any issues. He just had to ride in the back. Can't double check for sure right now, though. My ALPA jumpseat guide is in my flight bag in JFK.

Edit: It's 1 am and I'm bored. According to ALPA's website, most carriers it looks like if you've got a recip agreement, it doesn't matter if you're flying domestic or international. The exception to the rule is AA, and they are also the ones with the freaky "limited" and "unlimited" lists, anyway. If I'm reading this right, unless you're AA, Delta, CAL, UAL, US Airways, Alaska or FedEx, you can't go international with them. CAL, Delta, United, US Airways.....those all pretty much say if you're in CASS, you can go international, just have to sit in the back.

Oddly enough, XJT says domestic only, though, while Pinnacle specifically says international jumpseaters must occupy a cabin seat.

 

[Cptnchia]

By "company" do you mean "Delta" or "Pinnacle?"

What I mean generically is that the every company owns the seat and decides to get who asks to ride it. Then the captain gets to grant permission. Can the captain allow an employee who is not on the approved list to occupy it?

More specifically, in your example, it sounds like PNCL management has ceded their control of the jumpseat to Delta management. Sounds like you guys need take the issue up with your management.

 

[derg]

For better or for worse, its the companies jet and the companies Jumpseat.


Sent from my TRS-80

 

[SpiceWeasel]

Kell- I would have denied the JS to the AA guy if I were you. Just a friendly FYI, if that were you attempting on AA, it is verboten!

 

[kellwolf]

What I mean generically is that the every company owns the seat and decides to get who asks to ride it. Then the captain gets to grant permission. Can the captain allow an employee who is not on the approved list to occupy it?

More specifically, in your example, it sounds like PNCL management has ceded their control of the jumpseat to Delta management. Sounds like you guys need take the issue up with your management.

For the most part, management stays out of our hair on the jumpseat. I have more trouble out of gate agents trying to get a jumpseater on than management. I hear "You weight restricted, so you ain't takin no jumpseater" too many times. Pinnacle management seems to just ignore things that have no immediate relativity on their lives, then either knee jerk a policy change or run around like a chicken with its head cut off when it finally rears its ugly head.

Kell- I would have denied the JS to the AA guy if I were you. Just a friendly FYI, if that were you attempting on AA, it is verboten!

I see what you're saying. Until I checked the ALPA jumpseat website last night, I assumed AA was just as open to international JSing as Delta, CAL and the other major US carriers. I think a more productive stance for that guy would have been "Ya know, we can't do this on you guys. As a courtesy, I'll take you, but kick it up the chain of command for the future." Then again, the only way we got put on their "unlimited" list was by leaving their guys at the gate.....

 

[v1valarob]

Memo to Colgan crews that are to be converted to Pinnacle here after Sept 5 flat out says "if you don't sign up for Delta benefits, you can't Jumpseat on delta."

 

[Autothrust Blue]

For better or for worse, its the companies jet and the companies Jumpseat.

But...but...but...but...rabble rabble!

Memo to Colgan crews that are to be converted to Pinnacle here after Sept 5 flat out says "if you don't sign up for Delta benefits, you can't Jumpseat on delta."

In the words of jtrain609, "Bromance is over, Holmes!"